Re: HOPE but not faith
Bob Casanova <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | alt.atheism,talk.atheism,alt.agnosticism,talk.philosophy.humanism,sci.skeptic,alt.magick |
|---|---|
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:22:27 +1000, the following appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Sylvia Else <[email protected]>: >On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote: >> In article <[email protected]>, >> [email protected] says... >>> >>> Skeeter wrote: >>>> [email protected] says... >>>>> Skeeter wrote: >>>>>> [email protected] says... >>>>>>> Skeeter wrote: >>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says... >>>>>>>>> On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Everything is the consequence of something. No thing can create itself. >>>>>>>>>>  It needs a cause. Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No thing >>>>>>>>>> can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sylvia. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> He created it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to? >>>>>> >>>>>> It wouldn't be eternal if it was created. >>>>> >>>>> So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an >>>>> eternal universe. >>>> >>>> >>>> Twist it around as usual. >>> >>> You said it, not me. >>> >>>> If it was created it cannot be eternal. >>> >>> Of course it can. Any omnipotent god can create >>> something that lasts forever. If he can't, he's not >>> omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school. >> >> If it was created it had a beginning. > >You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning? > He's using the first dictionary definition of "eternal", which implies "always existed and always will" and ignoring the second, which does not: From the OED: "1.without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life. 2.perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling;eternal chatter." IOW, word games. > >In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in >contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc. > -- Bob C. "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov