Re: Question for John McAdams

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 8:34:21 PM UTC-5, John McAdams wrote:
> On 23 Feb 2021 18:03:33 -0000, "Glenn V." <[email protected]> wrote: 
> 
> >On Monday, February 22, 2021 at 1:19:35 AM UTC+1, John McAdams wrote: 
> >> On 21 Feb 2021 23:48:43 -0000, "Glenn V." <[email protected]> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> >John, we've discussed the subject of voter suppression before. I would 
> >> >think you know about these last GOP proposals in Georgia. 
> >> > 
> >> >So, would you agree that prohibit voting on Sundays and make absentee 
> >> >ballots more restricted is, in fact, measures to reduce voter 
> >> >participation in Georgia? Would you agree that the targets of those 
> >> >measures are pretty clear? 
> >> > 
> >> >Do you think that these proposals, if decided, benefits US democracy? 
> >> > 
> >> You really should understand identity politics, since you certainly 
> >> have plenty in Scandinavia. 
> >> 
> >> Or perhaps it's so pervasive you don't even recognize it. 
> >> 
> >> People on the left see a racist behind every bush and under every bed. 
> >> 
> >> Republicans, of course, see all resistance to ballot security as 
> >> evidence that the Democrats want to cheat. 
> >> 
> >> Here is an (oddly) fairly unbiased article on Georgia: 
> >> 
> >> https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/politics/elections/2021/02/02/sweeping-georgia-election-law-changes-proposed-state-gop-senate-bills-voter-id-absentee-monitors/4360423001/ 
> >> 
> >> There is, of course, a trade-off between ballot security and making 
> >> voting easy. If you make it super easy to vote, you make it 
> >> super-easy to cheat. 
> > 
> >What's this? I'm not talking about "super easy" or not. I'm talking about 
> >free and fair elections where everyone who want to vote is, in fact, able 
> >to vote. You either have this ambition or you don't. You know, just like 
> >"Scandinavia" and the rest of Western Europe have organized their 
> >ambitions of inclusion of **all voters** in their democracies.
> Are people in Europe required to show ID when voting? 
> 
> Are people allowed to mail in ballots? 
> 
> Is "ballot harvesting" allowed? That is, can somebody go into a 
> nursing home, get all the residents to sign ballots for the favorite 
> candidates of the harvesters, and then submit those?
> > 
> >If Europe can do this, the US certainly can. If the will is there, the 
> >resources are there and the ambition to have a democracy of inclusion is 
> >there, in the first place. You either do this and have this ambition or 
> >you don't. Not a relative thing, this. And certainly no rocket science at 
> >all. 
> >
> What you call "democracy of inclusion," if taken to the extreme, 
> allows fraud. There needs to be reasonable safeguards.
> >> 
> >> Thus Democrats have opposed voter ID rules, in spite of the fact that 
> >> you have to have an ID to drive, get a library card, open a bank 
> >> account and even collect welfare! 
> >>
> No response?
> >> Note that in the article some election officials complained about 
> >> being overwhelmed by mail-in an drop-off absentee ballots. 
> > 
> >So why wasn't the proper resources to deal with these highly expected high 
> >numbers of absentee ballots allocated to the districts? 
> >
> The COVID thing his a few months before the election, and you can't 
> instantly ramp up.
> >> 
> >> Keep in mind that elections should not merely *be* honest, but they 
> >> should *appear* honest. There were plenty of irregularities in 2020 
> >> that the Trump people could point to. I don't think they add up to 
> >> any sort of "stolen" election, but irregularities undermine confidence 
> >> in the system. 
> > 
> >You don't think?? What evidence are you aware of that election officials 
> >around the US are not? Election officials from both camps and courts with 
> >judges appointed by both R's and D's? I'd be interested in hearing about 
> >the evidence for this? You're an expert in distinguishing evidence from 
> >fantasies and bs, as I recall. 
> >
> You are just arguing that the election was not stolen. 
> 
> I'm pointing out that irregularities allow people to believe that the 
> election was stolen. Or even just doubt the legitimacy of the system. 
> 
> Again: elections should not merely *be* fair and honest, they should 
> *appear* to be fair and honest.
> >> 
> >> So maybe you should be just a bit skeptical of politically correct 
> >> identity politics, eh? 
> > 
> >Yes, sure. Once you, perhaps, consider the fact that every single district 
> >in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin. Georgia and Arizona where the GOP 
> >wanted to throw out millions of votes are districts overwhelmingly 
> >dominated by non-white voters. Huh? 
> >
> Those districts had Democrat election officials who would be prone to 
> cheat to help the Democrats. 

  As a court has just found in Michigan...

  https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2021/03/16/mi-court-michigan-secretary-of-states-absentee-ballot-order-broke-law-vindicating-trump-claim/

> It's obvious you a knee deep in identity politics. I'm sure that 
> makes you fell great about yourself, but it's a way of avoiding real 
> issues. 
> 
> .John 
> ----------------------- 
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm