Re: Capitol Mob - "Pretty Normal People"

On Thursday, March 25, 2021 at 9:51:58 PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 8:09:51 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote: 
> > On Wednesday, March 24, 2021 at 10:45:20 AM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote: 
> > > On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 11:10:12 PM UTC-4, Chuck Schuyler wrote: 
> > > > On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 9:28:58 PM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote: 
> > > > > On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 6:38:31 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote: 
> > > > > > On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 4:43:56 PM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote: 
> > > > > > > On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 12:34:41 PM UTC-5, Bud wrote: 
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 3:56:46 PM UTC-5, John Corbett wrote: 
> > > > > > > > > On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 12:55:13 PM UTC-5, Bud wrote: 
> > > > > > > > > > On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:06:54 PM UTC-5, ajohnstone wrote: 
> > > > > > > > > > > >I suppose I have an advantage over you ... He wasn`t killed at the riot. 
> > > > > > > > > > > >He texted his brother that the only thing that happened to him was that 
> > > > > > > > > > > >he was hit by some bear spray. He went back to the precinct and had a 
> > > > > > > > > > > >heart attack. 
> > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to rain on your parade but i had already linked to this incident in 
> > > > > > > > > > > an earlier post 
> > > > > > > > > > I brought it up three weeks ago over in the nuthouse in a post to Don 
> > > > > > > > > > Willis. He actually believes what the mainstream media tells him. 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/wudxrx_FIjo/m/8UyZ1ybLBQAJ 
> > > > > > > > > > > https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-claims 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > The author went into some detail about the Sicknick death and explained 
> > > > > > > > > > > the motive behind the deliberate misrepresentation. 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > "...Without Sicknick having his skull bashed in with a fire extinguisher, 
> > > > > > > > > > > there were no deaths that day that could be attributed to deliberate 
> > > > > > > > > > > violence by pro-Trump protesters..." 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > You are not the only one who accesses information from sources other than 
> > > > > > > > > > > the mainstream media. 
> > > > > > > > > > You quoted me out of context. What I said was... 
> > > > > > > > > > "I suppose I have an advantage over you because I never believed anything 
> > > > > > > > > > the Democrats or the mainstream media had to say about the event." 
> > > > > > > > > > I don`t believe anything they say unless I can corroborate it myself 
> > > > > > > > > > using sources I trust. They don`t have zero credibility, they are in the 
> > > > > > > > > > red. The idea that five people died as a result of the Capitol incident 
> > > > > > > > > > was never the default that needed to be disproven with me. 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Do you think that if a cop went back to his precinct after battling BLM 
> > > > > > > > > > rioters and died of a stroke you would have heard about it? Other than Fox 
> > > > > > > > > > news the MSM is all spin, lies and propaganda for the Democratic Party. 
> > > > > > > > > > And liberals seem to think that holding Fox as an exception is 
> > > > > > > > > > hypocritical, but not when they expose lies like this cop being killed by 
> > > > > > > > > > violent Trump supporters. When they tell the truth and expose lies that 
> > > > > > > > > > gains them credibility in my eyes, leftists seem to prefer the lies they 
> > > > > > > > > > are told, they tenaciously hold onto these false narratives. 
> > > > > > > > > It's a sad commentary on the mainstream media that we can't take their 
> > > > > > > > > word for ANYTHING. How can I trust people to accurately report the news 
> > > > > > > > > when they have such an obvious bias and agenda. Even if they are telling 
> > > > > > > > > me the truth, they are only telling half of it, the half they won't me to 
> > > > > > > > > know. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > It is an absolute disgrace that they ran with the story for weeks that a 
> > > > > > > > > Capitol cop had been murdered during the riot and when they finally did 
> > > > > > > > > fess up, they did so without a hint of remorse. Most of the people who 
> > > > > > > > > control the information that the public is receiving are complete scumbags 
> > > > > > > > > who don't deserve an ounce of respect and most people don't give them any. 
> > > > > > > > > I have more respect for drug dealers, pimps, and whores than I do for the 
> > > > > > > > > most of the people that report the news. At least they are giving people 
> > > > > > > > > what they pay for. 
> > > > > > > > This new liberalism seems totally unprincipled to me, it seems very "the 
> > > > > > > > end justifies the means", if they can fib or spin information it is ok if 
> > > > > > > > it helps save the planet (in their eyes) or helps fight racism (in their 
> > > > > > > > eyes). Since all the people at the Capitol event are convicted racists in 
> > > > > > > > the eyes of the left anything done to them is fine. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I generally avoid the MSM, but when I sign out of my email on AOL there 
> > > > > > > > are usually some headlines and I might click on one if the headline baits 
> > > > > > > > me. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > That's pretty much how I stay current. My homepage brings up headlines 
> > > > > > > froa variety of sources. Mostly liberal ones but a few conservative sites. 
> > > > > > > The sad thing is NOBODY is reporting straight news any more. I quit 
> > > > > > > subscribing to the Columbus Dispatch years ago. I can't remember the last 
> > > > > > > time I watched the nightly news on any of the networks. It used to be I 
> > > > > > > couldn't watch MSNBC or CNN for more than 30 seconds before I was ready to 
> > > > > > > punch somebody in the mouth but I've moved beyond that. Now I want to 
> > > > > > > strangle them. 
> > > > > > > > Today it was this one... 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > "Fighting Biden virus aid, GOP rekindles Obama-era strategy." 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I clicked to find out what "strategy" was being "rekindled" and found 
> > > > > > > > out the strategy was telling the truth. The first paragraph has this... 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > "Republicans have one goal for President Joe Biden’s $1.9 
> > > > > > > > trillion COVID-19 relief package: to erode public support for the rescue 
> > > > > > > > plan by portraying it as too big, too bloated and too much wasteful public 
> > > > > > > > spending for a pandemic that’s almost over." 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Calling it what it is is portrayed as some ploy to fool the public. 
> > > > > > > The one thing the MSM can't stand is somebody telling the truth. That's 
> > > > > > > dirty pool. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > https://www.aol.com/news/fighting-biden-virus-aid-gop-052006685-125614295.html 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > A huge chunk of money is going to bail out blue states so they can 
> > > > > > > > continue to do the things that put them in the red in the first place. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Another headline was about the impending Chauvin trial. There will be 
> > > > > > > > nationwide riots because, why not? Looting and destruction has been 
> > > > > > > > decriminalized. The only thing that will stop this from occurring time and 
> > > > > > > > time again is a zero tolerance policy like that shown with the Capitol 
> > > > > > > > protests. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Last summer the left decided that rioting was a legitimate form of protest 
> > > > > > > as long as it is the left that is doing the rioting. If the right does it, 
> > > > > > > it's an insurrection. 
> > > > > > > > https://www.aol.com/news/minneapolis-prepares-potential-unrest-ahead-110046142.html 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > You see a lot of talk about emotion in these articles, unfortunately it 
> > > > > > > > carries no weight in a courtroom (or shouldn`t, anyway). These people are 
> > > > > > > > bound to be disappointed. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Democrats are always there to throw fuel on the fire... 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > “We know that this trial is going to reignite the same kind of 
> > > > > > > > emotional and social response that we saw last summer,” the 
> > > > > > > > councilman said. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Hilarious that they are afraid that white supremacists are going to show 
> > > > > > > > up and start trouble. That is the least of their worries. 
> > > > > > > I think it's going to be very difficult to get a conviction one the murder 
> > > > > > > charge and some level manslaughter is the likely result with Chauvin 
> > > > > > > serving no more than a couple of years. A hung jury is a distinct 
> > > > > > > possibility too. Neither one of those will appease the left and we can 
> > > > > > > count on renewed rioting, excuse me, I meant renewed mostly peaceful 
> > > > > > > protests. 
> > > > > > Something new in the Chauvin case. A year almost to the day of the fatal 
> > > > > > Chauvin police stop Floyd swallowed drugs during a police stop and almost 
> > > > > > died. The court wasn`t going to allow this, but it seems like the judge 
> > > > > > changed his mind and is going to allow it. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Lawyers discuss it here... 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVIhEsR9GBU 
> > > > > It would seem that is pertinent to the question of the cause of death 
> > > > > which is central to the case. I still think Chauvin's actions were 
> > > > > inexcusable but if reasonable doubt can be raised as to thecause of death, 
> > > > > there shouldn't be a homicide conviction, even for the lesser charge of 
> > > > > manslaughter. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > My hunch is we will get a hung jury. That will probably mean either a plea 
> > > > > bargain or a retrial and likely another hung jury. 
> > > > I'm at Ground Zero. In fact, I dove by the courthouse last week when I 
> > > > took my wife to get her COVID shot. Barricades, fencing, and protesters 
> > > > already. 
> > > What could they be protesting at this time. Maybe they are just 
> > > practicing. In any case, it is a little disturbing to think our justice 
> > > system could be influenced by an angry mob but that seems to be the 
> > > reality. Those jurors are going to pass by those protesters on their way 
> > > into the courthouse. Is that going to influence them. That will depend on 
> > > the mental strength of the jurors and that can vary greatly from one 
> > > person to the next. 
> > I expect that jury selection is the most important aspect of this case. 
> > I expect that for most people their mind is made up and their bias will 
> > outweigh the evidence presented. I also expect most jurors are deceitful 
> > abut their true feelings in order to get on the jury (you watch, the media 
> > will uncover biased statements made by some of these jurors made on social 
> > media *after* they return a verdict). 
> > 
> > I looked at the questionnaire they presented the jury, and I thought a 
> > question like "Would you think it to be an injustice if Chauvin was found 
> > not guilty of all charges?' or something along those lines should have 
> > been asked. If they don`t see this as a viable possibility they shouldn`t 
> > be allowed to serve.
> There are rules that attorneys must follow during the voir dire process

  I saw "My Cousin Vinny" also.

> although it would probably require a lawyer to tell us just what those 
> rules are. I'm not sure a question that specific would pass muster.

  Several jurors said they saw that tape of the incident. Is it possible 
to see the video and not form some opinion?

> I do 
> remember when I was being seated on one particular jury panel, the defense 
> lawyer asked one potential juror as to whether he believed his client was 
> guilty or not. His response was, "I don't know" indicating he wanted to 
> see the evidence which was not the answer the lawyer was looking for. He 
> wanted to see hear him say, "I presume he is innocent.".

  I have that same problem. I know the process, so I can`t assume 
innocence. I know that experts on law and crime have already looked into 
the matter and decided the person is guilty. The best I can say is you 
will have to convince me that I can say with confidence the person 
committed the crime in question. But presume them innocent, no.

> The lawyer's 
> facial expression revealed his dismay. The lawyer used one of his 
> peremptory challenges to dismiss that juror. Both sides are given a fixed 
> number of peremptory challenges which they can use to dismiss a juror 
> without cause. Sometimes he can be because he didn't like a juror's answer 
> as in the case above and sometimes it is just a hunch. Lawyers can also 
> have as many jurors dismissed for cause when such cause arises. That same 
> lawyer dismissed another juror for cause because another of his clients 
> was accused of burglarizing that juror's apartment.
> > > > The pressure to convict him is immense. If the jury does it's job, I don't 
> > > > think Chauvin is convicted of second degree murder, but then again, I 
> > > > thought there was no way a jury would find OJ not guilty. Tough to tell 
> > > > what a jury will do nowadays in the grips of the secular religion of Woke. 
> > > > 
> > > I served on a jury in a murder case. Not a high profile one like this. The 
> > > pressure came from inside the jury room as it should be. Early on we 
> > > determined the accused was guilty but we deliberated for three days as to 
> > > the degree of murder. Ten wanted aggravated murder which is the Ohio 
> > > equivalent of murder one. Two wanted just murder (murder two). I was one 
> > > of the two and despite immense pressure from the ten we stood our ground. 
> > > Maybe it was my background as a professional umpire which had conditioned 
> > > me to making unpopular decisions. It was myself and another woman and 
> > > eventually the ten realized we weren't going to budge and reluctantly 
> > > agreed to the murder conviction rather than have a hung jury. 
> 
> > Maybe it was your background as an umpire that conditioned you to stick 
> > with your initial call even if it was wrong.
> You'd never expect me to admit that would you?

   Are umpires allowed to change a call?

   I remember a story a ball player told where the ump told him "You know 
you`re safe, and I know you`re safe, but 40,000 people see my hand up 
calling you out, so you`re out".

> > > > I'm glad I'm not on the jury, but I also know there's no way I'd ever be 
> > > > asked to serve on a trial like this. When questioned in the jury pool, I'd 
> > > > tell the attorneys that my mind is made up: George Floyd died of a drug 
> > > > overdose while the cops tried to reasonably restrain him and called for an 
> > > > ambulance. No murder. Chauvin may well be guilty of something, but not 
> > > > second degree murder. I don't think he did anything to intentionally harm 
> > > > this man. I don't see how the other cops even remotely did ANYTHING wrong. 
> > > > One cop had been on the job for four days. I think another cop was also 
> > > > brand new, and they reasonably deferred to Chauvin on the actions to take. 
> > > You could always use the old line, "I think we should give him a fair 
> > > trial and then hang him.". That should get you excused. A friend of mine 
> > > told me, only half in jest, that nobody is innocent. If they weren't 
> > > guilty they wouldn't be there. I've been on jury duty twice and it was an 
> > > interesting experience. The first time I spent three weeks in the jury 
> > > pool in Columbus, OH and sat on three jury panels, two criminal and one 
> > > civil. The other criminal trial was a forgery case which was a slam dunk 
> > > conviction. The civil case lasted almost a week and after the plaintiffs 
> > > had presented their case, the judge dismissed it without the jury every 
> > > deliberating. In the rural county I live in now, they call for jurors as 
> > > needed. I sat on another civil trial and the same thing happened. 
> > > > 
> > > > I shudder to think what this town will look like if Chauvin is found not 
> > > > guilty. Glad I'm armed. 
> > > I initially thought that Chauvin's actions were inexcusable and still do. 
> > I still think it is possible that it plays out exactly the same had the 
> > cops played "patty-cake" over Floyd. 
> > > Whether they were the primary cause of death or not now seems to be in 
> > > doubt. It might come down to the nuances of the law and whether Chauvin's 
> > > actions contributed to Floyd's death even if the drugs were the primary 
> > > cause. I don't know the answer to that and will probably be a question the 
> > > jury will have to wrestle with. 
> > I think the worst this is the mainstream media is reluctant to make 
> > public the mitigating factors that could contribute to the verdict. They 
> > should be informing the public, instead they add to the hysteria. I think 
> > they like to see cities burn, a lot of leftists have an anarchist 
> > streak.
> Jurors are instructed to avoid any news coverage of a trial.

  I meant the general public. The MSM should have some obligation to tell 
people the facts that mitigate against the emotionalism of the angry mobs.

> Except in the 
> rare event of a sequestered jury, jurors are on the honor system to adhere 
> to that. I can say that in none of the jury deliberations I was a part of, 
> no juror brought up anything they had heard outside the courtroom.