Re: Did the Davises see anyone (other than Mrs. Markham)?

On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 8:14:15 PM UTC-4, John Corbett wrote:
> On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 3:47:27 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote: 
> > On Friday, April 2, 2021 at 8:07:16 AM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote: 
> > > On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 8:37:32 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 6:10:55 AM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote: 
> > > > > On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 7:30:32 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > > > On Monday, March 29, 2021 at 4:27:13 AM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote: 
> > > > > > > On Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 5:25:26 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 4:11:26 PM UTC-7, John Corbett wrote: 
> > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 2:16:09 PM UTC-4, donald willis wrote: 
> > > > > > > > > > Speaking of the Davises.... A few curiosities: 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Barbara D testified that a "man was coming across the yard.... First off 
> > > > > > > > > > [Mrs. Markham] went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to 
> > > > > > > > > > him, and pointing at him...." (v3p343) 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > While Mrs. M herself testified, "He cut across Patton St. like this. 
> > > > > > > > > > Toward Jefferson. Then he was still in sight WHEN I BEGAN TO SCREAM AND 
> > > > > > > > > > HOLLER...." (v3) 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > If Mrs. M is correct re the point at which she began to scream, then 
> > > > > > > > > > Barbara D couldn't have seen the suspect while Mrs M was screaming and he 
> > > > > > > > > > was still in the front yard. 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Another curiosity: Barbara D charts (on CE 534) the path that she says 
> > > > > > > > > > that the suspect took across the front yard. Note that that path comes 
> > > > > > > > > > nowhere near the intersection of 10th & Patton. While Mrs. M is famous 
> > > > > > > > > > for her kitty-korner confrontation with him while he's standing at the 
> > > > > > > > > > opposite corner of the intersection. 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Virginia D., possibly, reconciles Barbara D & Helen M in her own 
> > > > > > > > > > testimony: 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Mr. BELIN. Well, let me try and reconstruct your actions then. 
> > > > > > > > > > You heard the shots? 
> > > > > > > > > > Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir. 
> > > > > > > > > > Mr. BELIN. You ran to the door? 
> > > > > > > > > > Mr. BELIN. What did you see when you got to the door? 
> > > > > > > > > > Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just saw, you know, the police car parked down there 
> > > > > > > > > > and we wondered what was going on, so we heard Mrs. Markham across the 
> > > > > > > > > > street calling. 
> > > > > > > > > > Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? 
> > > > > > > > > > Mrs. DAVIS. Well, she told us to call the police, well, so we went to the 
> > > > > > > > > > house. 
> > > > > > > > > > We was already in the house, and we went to the phone and called the 
> > > > > > > > > > police. (v6p460) 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > If we stop right there, Virginia D's testimony makes sense here. She and 
> > > > > > > > > > Barbara D hear Mrs M telling them to "call the police". And they proceed 
> > > > > > > > > > to do just that. No mention of Mrs M screaming yet, and no sighting of 
> > > > > > > > > > the suspect in the yard. She just says to call the police. They do that. 
> > > > > > > > > > However, Virginia D continues, disastrously: 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Mrs. DAVIS. Well, she told us to call the police, well, so we went to the 
> > > > > > > > > > house. 
> > > > > > > > > > We was already in the house, and we went to the phone and called the police. 
> > > > > > > > > > Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? 
> > > > > > > > > > 460 
> > > > > > > > > > Mrs. DAVIS. Then we went back to the front door. 
> > > > > > > > > > Mr. BEI.IN. Then what did you do? 
> > > > > > > > > > Mrs. DAVIS. We saw the boy cutting across the street. 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > This v e r y s l o w moving suspect is still in sight AFTER the Davises 
> > > > > > > > > > call the cops!? That's where Virginia D's testimony goes off the rails 
> > > > > > > > > > here. Up to that point, she seems to reconcile her testimony with Mrs 
> > > > > > > > > > M's. Then she has the "boy" still in sight and, for some reason, "cutting 
> > > > > > > > > > across the street". (This is the only time that either Davis says that 
> > > > > > > > > > they saw the suspect cross a street.) 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > But until this incredible coda, Virginia D paints a believable picture of 
> > > > > > > > > > the shooting scene: The Davises see and hear Mrs M telling them to call 
> > > > > > > > > > the police, and they do. Mrs M then picks up the story as the suspect is 
> > > > > > > > > > running up Patton, and THEN she starts screaming. Again, believable: 
> > > > > > > > > > She doesn't call attention to herself with screaming until he's trotting 
> > > > > > > > > > off AWAY from her. 
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Right, Don. Everybody made all this stuff up just to frame poor little Lee 
> > > > > > > > > Harvey Oswald. 
> > > > > > > > I just realized. In my post, I did not say that the witnesses--Virginia D 
> > > > > > > > & Mrs. Markham--were "making up stuff". I accept their joint story. 
> > > > > > > > What you write here does not apply to what I wrote here. It's you who has 
> > > > > > > > to reject the story! 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I have to reject Virginia Davis' testimony 
> > > > > > Okay. Then let's go with just one Davis, Barbara D, who in her affidavit 
> > > > > > said she found a shell in the front yard, then, in her testimony, said 
> > > > > > that she found it in the side yard. "It". Just realized--we don't know 
> > > > > > which Davis (supposedly) found which shell in the side yard. Maybe it 
> > > > > > doesn't matter. Let's amend that statement: Barbara D. testified that 
> > > > > > she found "a" shell in the side yard. 
> > > > > > because she said during the 
> > > > > > > same testimony that Jeanette called the police before they went to the 
> > > > > > > door and also that she called the police after they went to the door. Both 
> > > > > > > of those things cannot be true. She also said they went to the side door 
> > > > > > > before testifying they went to the front door. Since she was sixteen and 
> > > > > > > married, I doubt she had been living for very long in that apartment and 
> > > > > > > maybe didn't know which was the front door and which was the side door. 
> > > > > > She did say something like "side door on Patton". She'd know which street 
> > > > > > was which. 
> > > > > > > It's clear she was confused about some very basic facts which makes it 
> > > > > > > amazing that you would find significance in anything she said. 
> > > > > > We also have to kind of discount Guinyard's testimony that he saw the 
> > > > > > suspect knocking shells out of the gun in the side yard, since he didn't 
> > > > > > follow up on that. We also have to question Benavides' testimony to the 
> > > > > > effect that he saw the suspect tossing a shell down here, a shell there, 
> > > > > > in the front yard. Why didn't the Davises see that? Barbara D should 
> > > > > > have said that she saw the guy tossing down *two shells" in the front 
> > > > > > yard. Shells that Benavides testified that he picked up. But by the time 
> > > > > > of her testimony, it's *no* shells dropped in the front yard. (That she 
> > > > > > said she saw.) 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > If one is truly searching for the truth, one looks for the best evidence 
> > > > > > > available to lead him to it. Your approach is to follow the anomalies that 
> > > > > > > don't fit with anything else. 
> > > > > > Like those four anomalists who said the Dealey shooter's window was open 
> > > > > > all the way. Here, the anomalist is actually the one witness, Euins, who 
> > > > > > said the window was halfway open. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > You are the poster child for something Bud has said for a long time. 
> > > > > Conspiracy hobbyists are really bad at weighing evidence. Oswald dumped 
> > > > > the shells in the bushes that are at the corner of that house as he 
> > > > > proceeded toward Patton. 
> > > > You might want to check the testimony of the Davises again. Neither said 
> > > > that shells were "dumped in the bushes". Or check the photo on page 266 
> > > > of "With Malice". One shell was (supposedly) found under a SIDE window, 
> > > > the other "near the walkway" on the SIDE of the house. Neither shell, 
> > > > then, would have even been near a bush, or near the front yard. Now, 
> > > > who's really bad with evidence? 
> > > You are. 
> > Try again. You start with a false, or at best half-true, premise: 
> > "Oswald dumped the shells in the bushes". Well, one shell, supposedly. 
> > Quarter-true. And Benavides says another "by the bush". But the Davises 
> > testified that the two shells that THEY found were on the side yard, under 
> > a window and near the side walkway. NOT in or near those bushes. And you 
> > accuse ME of cherry picking!
> Now you are just nitpicking because you have nothing of substance to 
> present. The important thing is that Oswald was seen dumping shells from 
> his revolver as he passed from the front yard to the side yard along 
> Patton. That is where the shells were found by three different people and 
> all of those shells were fired by Oswald's revolver which he still had in 
> his possession when arrested in the Texas Theater. All these other phony 
> issues you have dreamed up are nothing more than a lame attempt to 
> invalidate all the damning evidence we have that Oswald was Tippit's 
> murderer.
> > 
> > LNs find it very very hard to admit when they're wrong....
> We don't get as much opportunity as you do.

You should get an award of some kind for that comeback!
  
 
> > > 
> > > Mr. BELIN - About how long did it take you to locate the shells once you 
> > > stared looking for them? 
> > > 
> > > Mr. BENAVIDES - Just a minute. I mean not very long at all. Just walked 
> > > directly to them. 
> > > 
> > > Mr. BELIN - You saw where he had thrown them? 
> > > 
> > > Mr. BENAVIDES - One of them went down inside of a bush, and the other one 
> > > was by the bush. 

Did everyone notice Don ignored your point here? 
  
  
> > > > Here is a photo of that house: 
> > > > > 
> > > > > http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zoINb3xg5hM/U-FMq7t628I/AAAAAAAA2IE/yNnt-TaLJfY/s1600/Commission-Document-630--(15).jpg 
> > > > > 
> > > > > As he was passing those bushes it would be just as accurate to say he was 
> > > > > in the front yard as it would be to say he was in the side yard and the 
> > > > > same would be true of any shells that were dumped as he went past those 
> > > > > bushes. Why on earth would you find significance in the fact that a 
> > > > > witness would describe that area as being in the side yard and another 
> > > > > would described it as being in the front yard or that the same witness 
> > > > > would describe that place as being in the side yard and months later refer 
> > > > > to it as the front yard? It's the same damn place whether you call it the 
> > > > > front yard or the side yard. Just how would this difference in the 
> > > > > description of where the shells were found fit into your grand cover up of 
> > > > > the Tippit murder. Are you claiming these witnesses were pressured to 
> > > > > changing where they saw Oswad dump the shells from the side yard to the 
> > > > > front yard. 
> > > > Actually, that's pretty much the reverse of what I have said! 
> > > Then why the hell are you making a big deal that some of the witnesses 
> > > said front yard and some said side yard? 
> > If they were pressured to say the reverse of the scenario in your 
> > question, then they were pressured to say "front yard", in their 
> > testimony. That's why the hell....
> If only you had evidence that anybody was pressured to change their story 
> or a plausible reason why they would have been pressured to change what 
> they said on this point.
> > > > And who is "Oswad"? 
> > > Take a guess. 
> > > 
> > > Is this really the best you can do? 
> > This from John "Quarter True" Corbett!
> Speaking of "Quarter True". You got the correct shooter for the JFK 
> assassination but got the location wrong so you only get half credit. You 
> completely whiffed on the Tippit murder so you get no credit for that. You 
> end up with half of a half which is one quarter.