Re: Why the electoral college is manifestly and obviously wrong and unjust

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] 
says...
> 
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:47:54 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
> >news:[email protected]:
> >
> >> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:04:56 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> >> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> 
> >>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
> >>>news:[email protected]:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 01:39:32 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> >>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
> >>>>>news:[email protected]: 
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:47:34 -0400, Ted
> >>>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:12:10 -0700, Rudy Canoza
> >>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>On 8/9/2026 7:07 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Skeeter <[email protected]> wrote in
> >>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]: 
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> There are 15 low population red shithole states with a combined
> >>>>>>>>>> population of a little over 39 million, roughly matching
> >>>>>>>>>> California's 39 million. They are Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas,
> >>>>>>>>>> Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana,
> >>>>>>>>>> Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, West Virginia, and
> >>>>>>>>>> Wyoming. These states have 48 representatives to the House, and 
> >>>30
> >>>>>>>>>> senators, giving them 78 total electoral votes. California has 
> >54
> >>>>>>>>>> electoral votes, for its 52 representatives and two senators.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Why should the voters in these 15 red shithole states have more
> >>>>>>>>>> say ? not just more say, but almost 50% more ? in electing the
> >>>>>>>>>> president than the equal number of voters in California? In 
> >what
> >>>>>>>>>> possible universe is that a just outcome? It is not a just 
> >>>outcome
> >>>>>>>>>> in ANY universe at all.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In fact, if we elected the president on a popular vote, those 
> >15
> >>>>>>>>>> red shithole states would still provide more votes for the
> >>>>>>>>>> Republiscum/QAnon candidate than California does for the
> >>>>>>>>>> Democratic (not "Democrat") candidate. Harris won California 
> >with
> >>>>>>>>>> about 58.5% of the vote. Trump won the majority of those 15 red
> >>>>>>>>>> shithole states with more than 60%; more than 70% in Wyoming 
> >and
> >>>>>>>>>> West Virginia. 
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>     Actually I agree with Trump,
> >>>>>>>>> the EC is a vestige of slavery
> >>>>>>>>> and needs to be abolished.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Of course it's a vestige of slavery. Paul Finkelman showed that
> >>>>>>>>conclusively. "The Proslavery Origins of the Electoral College"
> >>>>>>>>https://larc.cardozo.yu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2804
> >>>&context=c
> >>>>>>>>lr 
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Exactly.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> It insures the country is not run by the population centers.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Then why don't states use an EC to 
> >>>>>keep one large city from dominating 
> >>>>>statewide politics?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Because the less populated states did not want to be
> >>>> dominated by the more populated states.  Our system gives
> >>>> rights to minorities and protects those rights, otherwise
> >>>> the majority could always do as it wished.  Without the EC
> >>>> the country would always be dominated by a handful of states
> >>>> with large population centers and the rest of the country
> >>>> would just be ignored.
> >>>> 
> >>>> With the EC the entire country must be considered in every
> >>>> action.  That is why we have two houses of Congress - the
> >>>> House that is populated according to numbers alone and the
> >>>> Senate which insures the remainder of the country is not
> >>>> permanently ignored.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>    Funny that all elections in the US are 
> >>>determined by popular vote EXCEPT the president. 
> >>>
> >>>    Why is that?
> >> 
> >> Easy.  Every other election is a regional election.
> >> President is the only national election.
> >> 
> >> Each region elects it's own representative and the major
> >> population centers cannot dictate who the governor,
> >> Senators, or Representatives are for smaller states,
> >> Everyone has a voice.
> >> 
> >> We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
> >> It was planned to be that way.
> >
> >   
> >  If representative democracy is 
> >so perfect why do states have 
> >ballot initiatives where the voters
> >can vote on laws instead of just
> >people?
> 
> The procedures vary from state to state but usually a
> petition approved by a certain number of registered voters
> is required.  Then the measure can be placed on the ballot.
> 
> These are local or statewide measures and not national.  The
> states have a lot more power to decide their internal
> operations than the nation does.  The two issues are
> separate.
> 
> I never said it is perfect.  It is just better than anything
> else that has been tried as far as personal freedoms are
> concerned.
> 
> >>>
> >>>The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
> >>>November 10, 2016
> >>>
> >>>At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary 
> >>>Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct 
> >>>national election of the president. But the 
> >>>savvy Virginian James Madison responded that 
> >>>such a system would prove unacceptable to the 
> >>>South: "The right of suffrage was much more 
> >>>diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern 
> >>>than the Southern States; and the latter could 
> >>>have no influence in the election on the score 
> >>>of Negroes." In other words, in a direct 
> >>>election system, the North would outnumber the 
> >>>South, whose many slaves (more than half a 
> >>>million in all) of course could not vote. But 
> >>>the Electoral College?a prototype of which 
> >>>Madison proposed in this same speech?instead 
> >>>let each southern state count its slaves, 
> >>>albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing 
> >>>its share of the overall count.
> >>>
> >>>After the 1800 census, Wilson?s free state of 
> >>>Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than 
> >>>Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes. 
> >>>Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any 
> >>>other slave state) bought or bred, the more 
> >>>electoral votes it would receive. Were a slave 
> >>>state to free any blacks who then moved North, 
> >>>the state could actually lose electoral votes.
> >>>
> >>>If the system?s pro-slavery tilt was not 
> >>>overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution 
> >>>was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of 
> >>>the Constitution?s first 36 years, a white 
> >>>slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency.
> >>>
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/o2vbjdn
> >>>
> >>>
> >> 
> >> Remember at the time the Constitution was written smaller
> >> states were all southern and agricultural.  Today a lot of
> >> western states fit that description of being smaller in
> >> population.
> >> 
> >
> >   As the above article shows, 
> >it was not about small vs big
> >states, it was about skewing an
> >advantage to slavery states. 
> 
> Who were the small population states at the time.  Remember
> the country was a lot smaller then than it is now.
> 
> You seem to find a slave under every rock and you clearly
> despise anything that is southern.
> 
> 
> >Vermont and Rhode Island were 
> >small but didn't demand an EC,
> >it was Virginia and the Carolinas
> >that feared a direct elections. 
> >Because they wanted a slavery
> >advantage. 
> >
> >   Trump is right, get rid of (or at
> >least bypass) the EC. 
> >
> 
> He is wrong on this one.  But the EC is a constitutional
> requirement so his opinion is moot.

Holman will try anything to look "right".

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