Re: Why the electoral college is manifestly and obviously wrong and unjust

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> 
> Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]: 
> 
> > On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:47:54 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> > <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 
> >>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
> >>news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:04:56 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> >>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
> >>>>news:[email protected]:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 01:39:32 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> >>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
> >>>>>>news:[email protected]: 
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:47:34 -0400, Ted
> >>>>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:12:10 -0700, Rudy Canoza
> >>>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>On 8/9/2026 7:07 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Skeeter <[email protected]> wrote in
> >>>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]: 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>> There are 15 low population red shithole states with a
> >>>>>>>>>>> combined population of a little over 39 million, roughly
> >>>>>>>>>>> matching California's 39 million. They are Alabama, Alaska,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, West
> >>>>>>>>>>> Virginia, and Wyoming. These states have 48 representatives
> >>>>>>>>>>> to the House, and 
> >>>>30
> >>>>>>>>>>> senators, giving them 78 total electoral votes. California
> >>>>>>>>>>> has 
> >>54
> >>>>>>>>>>> electoral votes, for its 52 representatives and two
> >>>>>>>>>>> senators. 
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Why should the voters in these 15 red shithole states have
> >>>>>>>>>>> more say ? not just more say, but almost 50% more ? in
> >>>>>>>>>>> electing the president than the equal number of voters in
> >>>>>>>>>>> California? In 
> >>what
> >>>>>>>>>>> possible universe is that a just outcome? It is not a just 
> >>>>outcome
> >>>>>>>>>>> in ANY universe at all.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if we elected the president on a popular vote,
> >>>>>>>>>>> those 
> >>15
> >>>>>>>>>>> red shithole states would still provide more votes for the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Republiscum/QAnon candidate than California does for the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Democratic (not "Democrat") candidate. Harris won California
> >>with
> >>>>>>>>>>> about 58.5% of the vote. Trump won the majority of those 15
> >>>>>>>>>>> red shithole states with more than 60%; more than 70% in
> >>>>>>>>>>> Wyoming 
> >>and
> >>>>>>>>>>> West Virginia. 
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>     Actually I agree with Trump,
> >>>>>>>>>> the EC is a vestige of slavery
> >>>>>>>>>> and needs to be abolished.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Of course it's a vestige of slavery. Paul Finkelman showed that
> >>>>>>>>>conclusively. "The Proslavery Origins of the Electoral College"
> >>>>>>>>>https://larc.cardozo.yu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2804
> >>>>&context=c
> >>>>>>>>>lr 
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Exactly.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> It insures the country is not run by the population centers.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Then why don't states use an EC to 
> >>>>>>keep one large city from dominating 
> >>>>>>statewide politics?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Because the less populated states did not want to be
> >>>>> dominated by the more populated states.  Our system gives
> >>>>> rights to minorities and protects those rights, otherwise
> >>>>> the majority could always do as it wished.  Without the EC
> >>>>> the country would always be dominated by a handful of states
> >>>>> with large population centers and the rest of the country
> >>>>> would just be ignored.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> With the EC the entire country must be considered in every
> >>>>> action.  That is why we have two houses of Congress - the
> >>>>> House that is populated according to numbers alone and the
> >>>>> Senate which insures the remainder of the country is not
> >>>>> permanently ignored.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>    Funny that all elections in the US are 
> >>>>determined by popular vote EXCEPT the president. 
> >>>>
> >>>>    Why is that?
> >>> 
> >>> Easy.  Every other election is a regional election.
> >>> President is the only national election.
> >>> 
> >>> Each region elects it's own representative and the major
> >>> population centers cannot dictate who the governor,
> >>> Senators, or Representatives are for smaller states,
> >>> Everyone has a voice.
> >>> 
> >>> We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
> >>> It was planned to be that way.
> >>
> >>   
> >>  If representative democracy is 
> >>so perfect why do states have 
> >>ballot initiatives where the voters
> >>can vote on laws instead of just
> >>people?
> > 
> > The procedures vary from state to state but usually a
> > petition approved by a certain number of registered voters
> > is required.  Then the measure can be placed on the ballot.
> > 
> > These are local or statewide measures and not national.  The
> > states have a lot more power to decide their internal
> > operations than the nation does.  The two issues are
> > separate.
> > 
> > I never said it is perfect.  It is just better than anything
> > else that has been tried as far as personal freedoms are
> > concerned.
> > 
> >>>>
> >>>>The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
> >>>>November 10, 2016
> >>>>
> >>>>At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary 
> >>>>Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct 
> >>>>national election of the president. But the 
> >>>>savvy Virginian James Madison responded that 
> >>>>such a system would prove unacceptable to the 
> >>>>South: "The right of suffrage was much more 
> >>>>diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern 
> >>>>than the Southern States; and the latter could 
> >>>>have no influence in the election on the score 
> >>>>of Negroes." In other words, in a direct 
> >>>>election system, the North would outnumber the 
> >>>>South, whose many slaves (more than half a 
> >>>>million in all) of course could not vote. But 
> >>>>the Electoral College?a prototype of which 
> >>>>Madison proposed in this same speech?instead 
> >>>>let each southern state count its slaves, 
> >>>>albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing 
> >>>>its share of the overall count.
> >>>>
> >>>>After the 1800 census, Wilson?s free state of 
> >>>>Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than 
> >>>>Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes. 
> >>>>Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any 
> >>>>other slave state) bought or bred, the more 
> >>>>electoral votes it would receive. Were a slave 
> >>>>state to free any blacks who then moved North, 
> >>>>the state could actually lose electoral votes.
> >>>>
> >>>>If the system?s pro-slavery tilt was not 
> >>>>overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution 
> >>>>was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of 
> >>>>the Constitution?s first 36 years, a white 
> >>>>slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency.
> >>>>
> >>>>http://tinyurl.com/o2vbjdn
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> 
> >>> Remember at the time the Constitution was written smaller
> >>> states were all southern and agricultural.  Today a lot of
> >>> western states fit that description of being smaller in
> >>> population.
> >>> 
> >>
> >>   As the above article shows, 
> >>it was not about small vs big
> >>states, it was about skewing an
> >>advantage to slavery states. 
> > 
> > Who were the small population states at the time.  Remember
> > the country was a lot smaller then than it is now.
> > 
> > You seem to find a slave under every rock and you clearly
> > despise anything that is southern.
> > 
> 
>      The Constitution itself says 
> the EC exists because of slavery.
> 
> 
> > 
> >>Vermont and Rhode Island were 
> >>small but didn't demand an EC,
> >>it was Virginia and the Carolinas
> >>that feared a direct elections. 
> >>Because they wanted a slavery
> >>advantage. 
> >>
> >>   Trump is right, get rid of (or at
> >>least bypass) the EC. 
> >>
> > 
> > He is wrong on this one.  But the EC is a constitutional
> > requirement so his opinion is moot.
> 
> 
>     The EC is in the constitution, as is
> blacks being three fifths of person. Neither
> have any relevance today. 

You hate the EC because you could lose. You don't like losing. You cry and tell 
lies when you lose.

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