Re: Why the electoral college is manifestly and obviously wrong and unjust

On Wed, 12 Aug 2026 01:43:31 +0000, Mitchell Holman
<[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]: 
>
>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:47:54 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
>>>news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:04:56 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
>>>>>news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 01:39:32 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>>>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>>>news:[email protected]: 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:47:34 -0400, Ted
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:12:10 -0700, Rudy Canoza
>>>>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On 8/9/2026 7:07 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Skeeter <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]: 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are 15 low population red shithole states with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> combined population of a little over 39 million, roughly
>>>>>>>>>>>> matching California's 39 million. They are Alabama, Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, West
>>>>>>>>>>>> Virginia, and Wyoming. These states have 48 representatives
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the House, and 
>>>>>30
>>>>>>>>>>>> senators, giving them 78 total electoral votes. California
>>>>>>>>>>>> has 
>>>54
>>>>>>>>>>>> electoral votes, for its 52 representatives and two
>>>>>>>>>>>> senators. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why should the voters in these 15 red shithole states have
>>>>>>>>>>>> more say – not just more say, but almost 50% more – in
>>>>>>>>>>>> electing the president than the equal number of voters in
>>>>>>>>>>>> California? In 
>>>what
>>>>>>>>>>>> possible universe is that a just outcome? It is not a just 
>>>>>outcome
>>>>>>>>>>>> in ANY universe at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if we elected the president on a popular vote,
>>>>>>>>>>>> those 
>>>15
>>>>>>>>>>>> red shithole states would still provide more votes for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Republiscum/QAnon candidate than California does for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Democratic (not "Democrat") candidate. Harris won California
>>>with
>>>>>>>>>>>> about 58.5% of the vote. Trump won the majority of those 15
>>>>>>>>>>>> red shithole states with more than 60%; more than 70% in
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wyoming 
>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>>> West Virginia. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>     Actually I agree with Trump,
>>>>>>>>>>> the EC is a vestige of slavery
>>>>>>>>>>> and needs to be abolished.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Of course it's a vestige of slavery. Paul Finkelman showed that
>>>>>>>>>>conclusively. "The Proslavery Origins of the Electoral College"
>>>>>>>>>>https://larc.cardozo.yu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2804
>>>>>&context=c
>>>>>>>>>>lr 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Exactly.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It insures the country is not run by the population centers.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then why don't states use an EC to 
>>>>>>>keep one large city from dominating 
>>>>>>>statewide politics?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because the less populated states did not want to be
>>>>>> dominated by the more populated states.  Our system gives
>>>>>> rights to minorities and protects those rights, otherwise
>>>>>> the majority could always do as it wished.  Without the EC
>>>>>> the country would always be dominated by a handful of states
>>>>>> with large population centers and the rest of the country
>>>>>> would just be ignored.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With the EC the entire country must be considered in every
>>>>>> action.  That is why we have two houses of Congress - the
>>>>>> House that is populated according to numbers alone and the
>>>>>> Senate which insures the remainder of the country is not
>>>>>> permanently ignored.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Funny that all elections in the US are 
>>>>>determined by popular vote EXCEPT the president. 
>>>>>
>>>>>    Why is that?
>>>> 
>>>> Easy.  Every other election is a regional election.
>>>> President is the only national election.
>>>> 
>>>> Each region elects it's own representative and the major
>>>> population centers cannot dictate who the governor,
>>>> Senators, or Representatives are for smaller states,
>>>> Everyone has a voice.
>>>> 
>>>> We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
>>>> It was planned to be that way.
>>>
>>>   
>>>  If representative democracy is 
>>>so perfect why do states have 
>>>ballot initiatives where the voters
>>>can vote on laws instead of just
>>>people?
>> 
>> The procedures vary from state to state but usually a
>> petition approved by a certain number of registered voters
>> is required.  Then the measure can be placed on the ballot.
>> 
>> These are local or statewide measures and not national.  The
>> states have a lot more power to decide their internal
>> operations than the nation does.  The two issues are
>> separate.
>> 
>> I never said it is perfect.  It is just better than anything
>> else that has been tried as far as personal freedoms are
>> concerned.
>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
>>>>>November 10, 2016
>>>>>
>>>>>At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary 
>>>>>Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct 
>>>>>national election of the president. But the 
>>>>>savvy Virginian James Madison responded that 
>>>>>such a system would prove unacceptable to the 
>>>>>South: "The right of suffrage was much more 
>>>>>diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern 
>>>>>than the Southern States; and the latter could 
>>>>>have no influence in the election on the score 
>>>>>of Negroes." In other words, in a direct 
>>>>>election system, the North would outnumber the 
>>>>>South, whose many slaves (more than half a 
>>>>>million in all) of course could not vote. But 
>>>>>the Electoral College—a prototype of which 
>>>>>Madison proposed in this same speech—instead 
>>>>>let each southern state count its slaves, 
>>>>>albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing 
>>>>>its share of the overall count.
>>>>>
>>>>>After the 1800 census, Wilson’s free state of 
>>>>>Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than 
>>>>>Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes. 
>>>>>Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any 
>>>>>other slave state) bought or bred, the more 
>>>>>electoral votes it would receive. Were a slave 
>>>>>state to free any blacks who then moved North, 
>>>>>the state could actually lose electoral votes.
>>>>>
>>>>>If the system’s pro-slavery tilt was not 
>>>>>overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution 
>>>>>was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of 
>>>>>the Constitution’s first 36 years, a white 
>>>>>slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/o2vbjdn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Remember at the time the Constitution was written smaller
>>>> states were all southern and agricultural.  Today a lot of
>>>> western states fit that description of being smaller in
>>>> population.
>>>> 
>>>
>>>   As the above article shows, 
>>>it was not about small vs big
>>>states, it was about skewing an
>>>advantage to slavery states. 
>> 
>> Who were the small population states at the time.  Remember
>> the country was a lot smaller then than it is now.
>> 
>> You seem to find a slave under every rock and you clearly
>> despise anything that is southern.
>> 
>
>     The Constitution itself says 
>the EC exists because of slavery.

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the
United States of America. He shall hold his Office during
the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice
President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows


Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature
thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole
Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State
may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or
Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or
Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an
Elector.

Nothing there about slavery.  But you find slavery
everywhere don't you?

Perhaps you have SDS (Slavery Delusion Syndrome).

>
>
>> 
>>>Vermont and Rhode Island were 
>>>small but didn't demand an EC,
>>>it was Virginia and the Carolinas
>>>that feared a direct elections. 
>>>Because they wanted a slavery
>>>advantage. 
>>>
>>>   Trump is right, get rid of (or at
>>>least bypass) the EC. 
>>>
>> 
>> He is wrong on this one.  But the EC is a constitutional
>> requirement so his opinion is moot.
>
>
>    The EC is in the constitution, as is
>blacks being three fifths of person. Neither
>have any relevance today. 

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among
the several States which may be included within this Union,
according to their respective Numbers, which shall be
determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons,
including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and
excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other
Persons. 

Constitutional Amendments eliminated the groups of Indians
and "all other Persons".  There has been no such Amendment
addressing the EC.



-- 

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Be very afraid.  It does not matter 
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Deport them all.

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I support:

A Constitional Amendment establishing
the Freedom of Choice.

The elimination of public expression, 
display or support of religion or 
religious positions.

AA 966