Re: Why the electoral college is manifestly and obviously wrong and unjust

Skeeter <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]: 

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says... 
>> 
>> Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]: 
>> 
>> > On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:47:54 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>> > <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > 
>> >>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
>> >>news:[email protected]:
>> >>
>> >>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:04:56 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>> >>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
>> >>>>news:[email protected]:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 01:39:32 +0000, Mitchell Holman
>> >>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
>> >>>>>>news:[email protected]: 
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:47:34 -0400, Ted
>> >>>>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
>> >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:12:10 -0700, Rudy Canoza
>> >>>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>On 8/9/2026 7:07 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> Skeeter <[email protected]> wrote in
>> >>>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]: 
>> >>>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>>>> There are 15 low population red shithole states with a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> combined population of a little over 39 million, roughly
>> >>>>>>>>>>> matching California's 39 million. They are Alabama,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alaska, Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, South
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dakota, Utah, West Virginia, and Wyoming. These states
>> >>>>>>>>>>> have 48 representatives to the House, and 
>> >>>>30
>> >>>>>>>>>>> senators, giving them 78 total electoral votes.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> California has 
>> >>54
>> >>>>>>>>>>> electoral votes, for its 52 representatives and two
>> >>>>>>>>>>> senators. 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Why should the voters in these 15 red shithole states
>> >>>>>>>>>>> have more say ? not just more say, but almost 50% more ?
>> >>>>>>>>>>> in electing the president than the equal number of voters
>> >>>>>>>>>>> in California? In 
>> >>what
>> >>>>>>>>>>> possible universe is that a just outcome? It is not a
>> >>>>>>>>>>> just 
>> >>>>outcome
>> >>>>>>>>>>> in ANY universe at all.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if we elected the president on a popular vote,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> those 
>> >>15
>> >>>>>>>>>>> red shithole states would still provide more votes for
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the Republiscum/QAnon candidate than California does for
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the Democratic (not "Democrat") candidate. Harris won
>> >>>>>>>>>>> California 
>> >>with
>> >>>>>>>>>>> about 58.5% of the vote. Trump won the majority of those
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 15 red shithole states with more than 60%; more than 70%
>> >>>>>>>>>>> in Wyoming 
>> >>and
>> >>>>>>>>>>> West Virginia. 
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>>>>>     Actually I agree with Trump,
>> >>>>>>>>>> the EC is a vestige of slavery
>> >>>>>>>>>> and needs to be abolished.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Of course it's a vestige of slavery. Paul Finkelman showed
>> >>>>>>>>>that conclusively. "The Proslavery Origins of the Electoral
>> >>>>>>>>>College" 
>> >>>>>>>>>https://larc.cardozo.yu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2804 
>> >>>>&context=c
>> >>>>>>>>>lr 
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Exactly.
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>> It insures the country is not run by the population centers.
>> >>>>>>> 
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Then why don't states use an EC to 
>> >>>>>>keep one large city from dominating 
>> >>>>>>statewide politics?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> Because the less populated states did not want to be
>> >>>>> dominated by the more populated states.  Our system gives
>> >>>>> rights to minorities and protects those rights, otherwise
>> >>>>> the majority could always do as it wished.  Without the EC
>> >>>>> the country would always be dominated by a handful of states
>> >>>>> with large population centers and the rest of the country
>> >>>>> would just be ignored.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> With the EC the entire country must be considered in every
>> >>>>> action.  That is why we have two houses of Congress - the
>> >>>>> House that is populated according to numbers alone and the
>> >>>>> Senate which insures the remainder of the country is not
>> >>>>> permanently ignored.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>    Funny that all elections in the US are 
>> >>>>determined by popular vote EXCEPT the president. 
>> >>>>
>> >>>>    Why is that?
>> >>> 
>> >>> Easy.  Every other election is a regional election.
>> >>> President is the only national election.
>> >>> 
>> >>> Each region elects it's own representative and the major
>> >>> population centers cannot dictate who the governor,
>> >>> Senators, or Representatives are for smaller states,
>> >>> Everyone has a voice.
>> >>> 
>> >>> We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
>> >>> It was planned to be that way.
>> >>
>> >>   
>> >>  If representative democracy is 
>> >>so perfect why do states have 
>> >>ballot initiatives where the voters
>> >>can vote on laws instead of just
>> >>people?
>> > 
>> > The procedures vary from state to state but usually a
>> > petition approved by a certain number of registered voters
>> > is required.  Then the measure can be placed on the ballot.
>> > 
>> > These are local or statewide measures and not national.  The
>> > states have a lot more power to decide their internal
>> > operations than the nation does.  The two issues are
>> > separate.
>> > 
>> > I never said it is perfect.  It is just better than anything
>> > else that has been tried as far as personal freedoms are
>> > concerned.
>> > 
>> >>>>
>> >>>>The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
>> >>>>November 10, 2016
>> >>>>
>> >>>>At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary 
>> >>>>Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct 
>> >>>>national election of the president. But the 
>> >>>>savvy Virginian James Madison responded that 
>> >>>>such a system would prove unacceptable to the 
>> >>>>South: "The right of suffrage was much more 
>> >>>>diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern 
>> >>>>than the Southern States; and the latter could 
>> >>>>have no influence in the election on the score 
>> >>>>of Negroes." In other words, in a direct 
>> >>>>election system, the North would outnumber the 
>> >>>>South, whose many slaves (more than half a 
>> >>>>million in all) of course could not vote. But 
>> >>>>the Electoral College?a prototype of which 
>> >>>>Madison proposed in this same speech?instead 
>> >>>>let each southern state count its slaves, 
>> >>>>albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing 
>> >>>>its share of the overall count.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>After the 1800 census, Wilson?s free state of 
>> >>>>Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than 
>> >>>>Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes. 
>> >>>>Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any 
>> >>>>other slave state) bought or bred, the more 
>> >>>>electoral votes it would receive. Were a slave 
>> >>>>state to free any blacks who then moved North, 
>> >>>>the state could actually lose electoral votes.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>If the system?s pro-slavery tilt was not 
>> >>>>overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution 
>> >>>>was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of 
>> >>>>the Constitution?s first 36 years, a white 
>> >>>>slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>http://tinyurl.com/o2vbjdn
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> 
>> >>> Remember at the time the Constitution was written smaller
>> >>> states were all southern and agricultural.  Today a lot of
>> >>> western states fit that description of being smaller in
>> >>> population.
>> >>> 
>> >>
>> >>   As the above article shows, 
>> >>it was not about small vs big
>> >>states, it was about skewing an
>> >>advantage to slavery states. 
>> > 
>> > Who were the small population states at the time.  Remember
>> > the country was a lot smaller then than it is now.
>> > 
>> > You seem to find a slave under every rock and you clearly
>> > despise anything that is southern.
>> > 
>> 
>>      The Constitution itself says 
>> the EC exists because of slavery.
>> 
>> 
>> > 
>> >>Vermont and Rhode Island were 
>> >>small but didn't demand an EC,
>> >>it was Virginia and the Carolinas
>> >>that feared a direct elections. 
>> >>Because they wanted a slavery
>> >>advantage. 
>> >>
>> >>   Trump is right, get rid of (or at
>> >>least bypass) the EC. 
>> >>
>> > 
>> > He is wrong on this one.  But the EC is a constitutional
>> > requirement so his opinion is moot.
>> 
>> 
>>     The EC is in the constitution, as is
>> blacks being three fifths of person. Neither
>> have any relevance today. 
> 
> You hate the EC because you could lose.


  Is that why Trump hates the EC?