Re: Why the electoral college is manifestly and obviously wrong and unjust

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> 
> Skeeter <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]: 
> 
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > says... 
> >> 
> >> Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]: 
> >> 
> >> > On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 17:47:54 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> >> > <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
> >> >>news:[email protected]:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 13:04:56 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> >> >>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>> 
> >> >>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in 
> >> >>>>news:[email protected]:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 01:39:32 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> >> >>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>Attila <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> >>>>>>news:[email protected]: 
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:47:34 -0400, Ted
> >> >>>>>>> <[email protected]> in alt.atheism with message-id
> >> >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>>>On Mon, 10 Aug 2026 07:12:10 -0700, Rudy Canoza
> >> >>>>>>>><[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>On 8/9/2026 7:07 PM, Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Skeeter <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> >>>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]: 
> >> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> There are 15 low population red shithole states with a
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> combined population of a little over 39 million, roughly
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> matching California's 39 million. They are Alabama,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Alaska, Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, South
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Dakota, Utah, West Virginia, and Wyoming. These states
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> have 48 representatives to the House, and 
> >> >>>>30
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> senators, giving them 78 total electoral votes.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> California has 
> >> >>54
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> electoral votes, for its 52 representatives and two
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> senators. 
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Why should the voters in these 15 red shithole states
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> have more say ? not just more say, but almost 50% more ?
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> in electing the president than the equal number of voters
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> in California? In 
> >> >>what
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> possible universe is that a just outcome? It is not a
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> just 
> >> >>>>outcome
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> in ANY universe at all.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if we elected the president on a popular vote,
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> those 
> >> >>15
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> red shithole states would still provide more votes for
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> the Republiscum/QAnon candidate than California does for
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> the Democratic (not "Democrat") candidate. Harris won
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> California 
> >> >>with
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> about 58.5% of the vote. Trump won the majority of those
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> 15 red shithole states with more than 60%; more than 70%
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> in Wyoming 
> >> >>and
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> West Virginia. 
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>>>>>     Actually I agree with Trump,
> >> >>>>>>>>>> the EC is a vestige of slavery
> >> >>>>>>>>>> and needs to be abolished.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>Of course it's a vestige of slavery. Paul Finkelman showed
> >> >>>>>>>>>that conclusively. "The Proslavery Origins of the Electoral
> >> >>>>>>>>>College" 
> >> >>>>>>>>>https://larc.cardozo.yu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2804 
> >> >>>>&context=c
> >> >>>>>>>>>lr 
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>Exactly.
> >> >>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>> It insures the country is not run by the population centers.
> >> >>>>>>> 
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Then why don't states use an EC to 
> >> >>>>>>keep one large city from dominating 
> >> >>>>>>statewide politics?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>> Because the less populated states did not want to be
> >> >>>>> dominated by the more populated states.  Our system gives
> >> >>>>> rights to minorities and protects those rights, otherwise
> >> >>>>> the majority could always do as it wished.  Without the EC
> >> >>>>> the country would always be dominated by a handful of states
> >> >>>>> with large population centers and the rest of the country
> >> >>>>> would just be ignored.
> >> >>>>> 
> >> >>>>> With the EC the entire country must be considered in every
> >> >>>>> action.  That is why we have two houses of Congress - the
> >> >>>>> House that is populated according to numbers alone and the
> >> >>>>> Senate which insures the remainder of the country is not
> >> >>>>> permanently ignored.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>    Funny that all elections in the US are 
> >> >>>>determined by popular vote EXCEPT the president. 
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>    Why is that?
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> Easy.  Every other election is a regional election.
> >> >>> President is the only national election.
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> Each region elects it's own representative and the major
> >> >>> population centers cannot dictate who the governor,
> >> >>> Senators, or Representatives are for smaller states,
> >> >>> Everyone has a voice.
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.
> >> >>> It was planned to be that way.
> >> >>
> >> >>   
> >> >>  If representative democracy is 
> >> >>so perfect why do states have 
> >> >>ballot initiatives where the voters
> >> >>can vote on laws instead of just
> >> >>people?
> >> > 
> >> > The procedures vary from state to state but usually a
> >> > petition approved by a certain number of registered voters
> >> > is required.  Then the measure can be placed on the ballot.
> >> > 
> >> > These are local or statewide measures and not national.  The
> >> > states have a lot more power to decide their internal
> >> > operations than the nation does.  The two issues are
> >> > separate.
> >> > 
> >> > I never said it is perfect.  It is just better than anything
> >> > else that has been tried as far as personal freedoms are
> >> > concerned.
> >> > 
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists
> >> >>>>November 10, 2016
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary 
> >> >>>>Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct 
> >> >>>>national election of the president. But the 
> >> >>>>savvy Virginian James Madison responded that 
> >> >>>>such a system would prove unacceptable to the 
> >> >>>>South: "The right of suffrage was much more 
> >> >>>>diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern 
> >> >>>>than the Southern States; and the latter could 
> >> >>>>have no influence in the election on the score 
> >> >>>>of Negroes." In other words, in a direct 
> >> >>>>election system, the North would outnumber the 
> >> >>>>South, whose many slaves (more than half a 
> >> >>>>million in all) of course could not vote. But 
> >> >>>>the Electoral College?a prototype of which 
> >> >>>>Madison proposed in this same speech?instead 
> >> >>>>let each southern state count its slaves, 
> >> >>>>albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing 
> >> >>>>its share of the overall count.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>After the 1800 census, Wilson?s free state of 
> >> >>>>Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than 
> >> >>>>Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes. 
> >> >>>>Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any 
> >> >>>>other slave state) bought or bred, the more 
> >> >>>>electoral votes it would receive. Were a slave 
> >> >>>>state to free any blacks who then moved North, 
> >> >>>>the state could actually lose electoral votes.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>If the system?s pro-slavery tilt was not 
> >> >>>>overwhelmingly obvious when the Constitution 
> >> >>>>was ratified, it quickly became so. For 32 of 
> >> >>>>the Constitution?s first 36 years, a white 
> >> >>>>slaveholding Virginian occupied the presidency.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>http://tinyurl.com/o2vbjdn
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> Remember at the time the Constitution was written smaller
> >> >>> states were all southern and agricultural.  Today a lot of
> >> >>> western states fit that description of being smaller in
> >> >>> population.
> >> >>> 
> >> >>
> >> >>   As the above article shows, 
> >> >>it was not about small vs big
> >> >>states, it was about skewing an
> >> >>advantage to slavery states. 
> >> > 
> >> > Who were the small population states at the time.  Remember
> >> > the country was a lot smaller then than it is now.
> >> > 
> >> > You seem to find a slave under every rock and you clearly
> >> > despise anything that is southern.
> >> > 
> >> 
> >>      The Constitution itself says 
> >> the EC exists because of slavery.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > 
> >> >>Vermont and Rhode Island were 
> >> >>small but didn't demand an EC,
> >> >>it was Virginia and the Carolinas
> >> >>that feared a direct elections. 
> >> >>Because they wanted a slavery
> >> >>advantage. 
> >> >>
> >> >>   Trump is right, get rid of (or at
> >> >>least bypass) the EC. 
> >> >>
> >> > 
> >> > He is wrong on this one.  But the EC is a constitutional
> >> > requirement so his opinion is moot.
> >> 
> >> 
> >>     The EC is in the constitution, as is
> >> blacks being three fifths of person. Neither
> >> have any relevance today. 
> > 
> > You hate the EC because you could lose.
> 
> 
>   Is that why Trump hates the EC?

TRUMP!

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