Re: Subaru +? Toyota, rumors about turbo ressistance

Frank <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 8/1/2020 10:04 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> gamo <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> There are rumors that Mercedes + a big firm in turbochargers,
>>> make an addition of an electrical motor that reduces or eliminate
>>> the lag in the power supply.
>>>
>>> There are rumors, too, that new motors around 2.4 liters with
>>> turbo could serve to a line of Subaru cars, including BRZ + GT86,
>>> offering you a power around 270-280 horsepower.
>>>
>>> That's it, better motors with around the same or minor emmisions.
>>>
>>> Was not predictable that petrol industry + gas services +
>>> mechanical services + autodealers + car industry + satisfied
>>> consumers hit back to the regulators of electric future???
>> 
>> Not sure where you were going or asking.
>> 
>>  From your Subject, there is no question about Subaru + Toyota.  That
>> already happened back in February 2020.  Toyota raised its stake in
>> Subaru.  Toyota does not own Subaru.  See:
>> 
>> https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyota-group-what-it-means-new-outback-and-forester-models
>> https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/subaru-and-toyota-officially-affiliated-after-latter-increases-stake-in-partner/
>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-raises-stake-subaru-20-050033461.html
>> 
>> The article mentions Subaru moving to [hybrid] electric vehicles, but
>> those aren't in my foreseeable future.  I'm in an old house that would
>> require rewiring to 200A service to support charging a car.  Even if
>> that happens, I'd only look at hybrids because I do take my Subies
>> offroad, and there aren't plug-in stations in the forests.  What buyers
>> seem to neglect is that, yeah, they safe on fuel costs but the huge and
>> very expensive batteries need to get replaced every 5 years, so add
>> battery replacement ($3000 to $8000) to the Cost of Ownership for an
>> electric vehicle.  Pretty much eliminates the savings of going electric.
>> 
>> I didn't address your mention of Mercedes and some vague reference to a
>> turbocharger manufacturer since those are off-topic here.  Same for your
>> rumors.
>> 
>> Can't address your last paragraph since it rambled with no point.  A
>> condensed version is "Was not predictable hit back to the regulators of
>> electric future?"  Who are these regulators of "electric future"?  How
>> would they get impacted from increased sales of electric vehicles?  By
>> getting busy in regulating the efficiency, pricing, and recycling of the
>> batteries?
>> 
> 
> Consumer reports reviewed the Crosstrek hybrid a while back and said the 
> extra couple of mpg's was not worth the extra cost of the vehicle.  I'm 
> getting 30 mpg off my Crosstrek, mostly local trips, and with what 
> little driving I do a hybrid or electric car are not in my future either.
> 
> Scotty Kilmer makes a lot of comments on hybrids and advises against 
> buying a used one because of battery cost plus extra costs of repairs.
> 
> He also does not like turbocharging as it wears out a small engine 
> faster.  He also mentioned that if transmission is not built up to take 
> the turbocharged engine it can wear out faster.

Before I buy an electric vehicle from Subaru, they'd have to up their
warranty to be similar to Kia.

Kia
  Bumper-to-bumper:     5 years, or  60K miles
  Powertrain:          10 years, or 100K miles
  Roadside assistance:  5 years, or  60K miles
  
Subaru
  Bumper-to-bumper:     3 years, or  36K miles
  Powertrain:           5 years, or  60K miles
  Roadside assistance:  3 years, or  36K miles
  
Total Cost of Ownership (per Edmunds): With a $1K for the above (Subaru
is higher), about $40K over 5 years.

But then you look at the cost to replace the LIon battery after 5 years.
For Kia's Niro, it's $8900 excluding tax and fees.  Subaru doesn't have
a hybrid offering, but I doubt it would be much cheaper.  Edmund's TCO
(Total Cost of Ownership) calculator doesn't cover Kia Niro.  Edmund's
TCO includes fuel costs (for gas cars).  Add in the LIon battery, and
TCO goes up 25%.  Their TCO for an Outback 2020 is $6259 over 5 years.
The cost to replace the LIon battery far exceeds any savings in gas,
plus you had to pay for the electricity to charge the LIon battery.

Also, we trade one pollution source for a different one.  Instead of car
emissions, we end up with lithium storage.  Only 50% of lithium
batteries get recycled (a Finnish company upped that to 80%, but just
for themself, not industry-wide).  With more hybrid and all electric
cars, we deplete lithium faster and end up stockpiling old crap faster.  

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Is-There-Enough-Lithium-to-Maintain-the-Growth-of-the-Lithium-Ion-Battery-M
(dated June 2015)
"Can lithium batteries scale up? According to this quick and purely
speculative math, the short answer is, with current reserves, not just
no, but hell no. With known lithium ā€œresourcesā€ at 39.5 million tons, we
get about 50 years of supply with 100 Gigafactories, which is a bit more
comforting, but still not exactly a viable long-term solution."

About the same expectation for when we run out of petroleum.  Guess
we'll have to switch to coal-powered steam engined cars for the next 100
to 250 years.  Coal will get depleted faster as the coal-powered
electric plants will have to handle the added load of more and more
[hybrid] electric cars or if forced to go to coal-powered cars.

Considering that I keep my cars for over 20 years, I'd only have 2
hybrids for when they'd have to get scrapped.