Re: Gun Control means Crime Control

On 12/6/22 2:56 PM, Jay Santos wrote:
> On 12/6/2022 10:48 AM, !Jones wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 Dec 2022 13:18:39 -0500, in talk.politics.guns
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 6 Dec 2022 07:12:21 -0800, Matt Singer <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nope.  The second amendment came about because of slavery.  This is 
>>>> very well
>>>> established by historians.
>>>
>>> Since you are the first person I've ever heard make such a claim,
>>>
>>> prove it.
>>>
>>> Swill
>>
>> Well, Mr. Swill, we dislike the term: "prove".  You *prove* that the
>> square root of two is irrational... but that's mathematics.
>>
>> That 2A was a compromise with the slavers is a well established
>> historical position and is beginning to gain mainstream traction.
>>
>> Start with:
>> The Hidden History of the Second Amendment, 31 U.C. Davis Law Review
>> 309 (1998)  https://docs.rwu.edu/law_fac_fs/311/
> 
> There are many more than that:
> 
> 
> https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/1002107670/historian-uncovers-the-racist-roots-of-the-2nd-amendment 
> 
> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-origins-of-public-carry-jurisprudence-in-the-slave-south/407809/ 
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/opinion/second-amendment-slavery-james-madison.html 
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/28/books/review/the-second-carol-anderson.html 
> 
> https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-slave-owners-dictated-the-language-of-the-2nd-amendment 
> 
> https://medium.com/the-new-leader/debunking-the-mythic-origin-of-the-second-amendment-bfe06dc06946 


And now the ancestors of the slaves Keep and bear arms, which means you 
shot yourself in the foot with all that BS about slavery... because now 
the people and the the gun owners are all the same.

And the entire Bill of RIGHTS was a "compromise" to get the original 
SLAVE OWNING Constitution ratified into being...

The irony being that the Bill of RIGHTS and the 2nd amendment are the 
reasons that we no longer have slavery. And then the 13th and 14th 
Amendment were added to suppress any notion that slavery was going to be 
made legal once again.
>> You see, if you examine the proceedings of the Richmond convention,
>> you will find slavery mentioned 97 times; self defense: zero;
>> overthrowing the government: zero.
> 

If that's the only things you look for then it's all you will find...

The 5th Amendment says a person has a RIGHT to life Liberty and property 
and that RIGHT shall not be violated without due process. Sounds like 
self defense is taken care of in a separate amendment.

And lets see... there is a Militia clause in Article I Section 8...

All the 2nd amendment does is restrict/limit the power of States and 
point out that there is no delegated power to regulate the RIGHT of the 
people to keep and bear arms. Which was all it was meant to do. If 
Slavery came up in the debate it apparently wasn't acted upon.

> That's true, but it doesn't negate the fact that a natural right to self 
> defense is what underlies the right to arms.  A right to self defense 
> necessarily means a right to *armed* self defense, because one's 
> assailants are most likely to be armed themselves.
> 
>>
>> Since the Richmond debates are considered the crucible of the Bill of
>> Rights, how do you support 2A as meaning anything else?
>>
> 

The entire Constitution has to be taken as a whole to understand what 
the DOCUMENT was established to create....


Parts were less than perfect and so they openly said (in the Preamble) 
it was created as a way to form a more perfect Union.


  *Preamble*
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect 
Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the 
common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of 
Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this 
Constitution for the United States of America.
-- 
-Reality Matters-