Re: The Four Elements of National Identity in Herodotus

On 1/2/23 1:04 PM, D. Ray wrote:
> The Western Classical notion of identity comes to us from Herodotus’
> Histories, written in the 5th century B.C.  It’s from Herodotus that we
> have the story of the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae, told in the broader
> context of the entire Hellenic world’s successful resistance of the Persian
> invasion.  In order to do that, the Spartans (Dorians) and Athenians
> (Ionians) had to overcome their differences and join together to defend
> what was common to both of them as Greeks.
> 
> In Book VIII, there is a scene in which the Athenians explain to a
> messenger from Sparta why the Spartans should side with the Athenians and
> not the Persians.  (It should be remembered that both the ancient Greeks
> and ancient Persians were Indo-European peoples.)
> 
> “First and foremost of these is that the images and buildings of the gods
> have been burned and demolished, so that we are bound by necessity to exact
> the greatest revenge on the man who performed these deeds, rather than to
> make agreements with him. And second, it would not be fitting for the
> Athenians to prove traitors to the Greek people, with whom we are united in
> sharing the same kinship and language, with whom we have established
> shrines and conduct sacrifices to the gods together, and with whom we also
> share the same way of life.” (VIII:144.2)
> 
> In this passage are no less than four criteria for being a Greek, or
> Hellene: common religion, common blood, common language, and common
> customs.  (One could argue that customs are almost entirely derivative of
> religion and blood, but we will stick to the four-part formulation in the
> text.)  That was 2500 years ago, but in my opinion this is still the best
> and most comprehensive working definition of national identity.  This is
> because one can extract it from this particular situation in ancient
> history and apply it to virtually anywhere in the world at any time.  The
> four elements of identity are either present or absent, to varying degrees,
> and a people are correspondingly either strong or weak.
> 

Making the Democrats Multiculturalism, a *NATION KILLER* and they sure 
tried to force it on us to kill our NATIONAL IDENTITY.

I notice that Obama and Biden tell us often that *THAT'S NOT WHO WE ARE* 
as if they control us and who we are or will become.



> The story of the Greek resistance to Persian tyranny is the story of the
> self-realization and self-actualization of a people.  When the four
> elements of identity are in place, they work together synergistically to
> form a kind of collective body, capable of functioning as an organic whole.
>   The Persian army was numerically much stronger than the Greek, but most of
> their soldiers were conscripts from conquered territories who were forced
> into service.  They were Persians in name only.

Like the Democrats Multicultural Conscripts that are forced by law to 
acquiesce to the overlords wishes rather than choose to work together on 
our own as "our" Constitution says:

Article I
Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, 
Duties, Imposts and Excises, *to pay the Debts and provide for* the 
*common Defence* and *general Welfare* *of the United States* ;

...but it says nothing about the welfare of individual persons.  SO the 
Democrats Multiculturalism that targets individual persons in the United 
States who are further described as a separate entity the way religion 
and government are separate entities.

Amendment X
The *powers not delegated to the United States* by the Constitution, nor 
*prohibited by it to the States* , *are reserved to the States* 
respectively, *or* to *the people*.

NOTICE THAT "THE UNITED STATES" is a separate entity from "the States" 
or "the PEOPLE"...  SO when Article I Section 8 says

*pay the Debts and provide for the* *common Defence* and *general* 
*Welfare* *of the United States*

It's NOT referring to THE PEOPLE it's specifically speaking to the 
defense and welfare of the ENTITY called the United States which is the 
Jurisdiction of the Federal Government and *WE THE PEOPLE* are NOT 
subjects of a Kingdom so we aren't part of that FEDERAL Jurisdiction and 
neither are "the States".

Which means that mandating Multiculturalism and person to person 
equality (or equity of outcomes) is NOT a constitutional power...  ONLY 
the relationship between the GOVERNMENT and the States or the 
relationship between the Government and THE PEOPLE is delegated by 
Constitutional powers. There is not an interpersonal connection between 
people that is there to mandate Multiculturalism or hate, love and fear, 
of the people, they have to find their own way, the government can't 
force a person to conform to accept another person as a marriage partner 
or as a friend or as an equal...  it's NOT in the government's job 
description.  It never was, you can only be an equal by law where law is 
Constitutional and there is no Constitutional law that says you are 
mandated to treat your fellow person as your equal. The Constitutional 
laws say you can't infringe on others RIGHTS... Civil Liberties are the 
RIGHTS given to you by your Government, which are limited to the 
delegated powers the Constitution has enumerated to the United States.




> 
> It’s interesting to note that the Athenians tell the Spartan messenger that
> the most important reason for opposing the Persians is their desecration of
> Greek religious shrines.  (It should be remembered that the Spartans were
> known as both the fiercest warriors of the ancient world and also the most
> pious, dividing their time more or less equally between military training
> and religious ritual.  How Evolian.)  The Classical notion of identity is
> thus supportive of the Traditionalist view of the primacy of religious
> faith – that “culture comes from the cult,” as Russell Kirk put it – but it
> also checks it by including the other criteria.  Common faith alone will
> not suffice, even if it is ultimately the most important unifying factor of
> a culture.

I also happened to see the Democrats and their Multiculturalism racism 
cult of Critical Race Theory and LGBTQ sexually confusion cult as 
attempts to force people to follow their religions rather than *OUR* 
*CONSTITUTION* .

It also works with the One World Government or the (Persian tyranny) 
facing them/us.  And our Democrats are traitors to our NATION and 
undermining us so we will capitulate.


> 
> It should also be noted that the Classical definition of identity comes to
> us from a time prior to the reign of Homo economicus.  (Though even then,
> Herodotus has the Persian king Cyrus mocking the Athenians for having “a
> place designated in the middle of their city [the agora, marketplace] in
> which they gather to cheat each other.”) It is a formula for the cohesion
> of a people and the health of a culture.  It is not necessarily a formula
> for dominance in the world, particularly economic dominance.
> 
> Finally, the Classical definition of identity represents an ideal, a
> standard.  As with other standards, there are bound to be deviations and
> variations.  Elsewhere in The Histories, Herodotus tells us that the
> Athenians were originally Pelasgians – pre-Indo-European inhabitants of
> Greece – who “learned a new language when they became Hellenes.” (I:57.3 –
> I:58)  The dominant influence on Classical Greek culture and identity was
> probably Dorian, the Indo-Europeans who conquered Greece from the north.
> But these Pelasgians were apparently able to assimilate and “become
> Hellenes,” although history shows us that Athens was always culturally and
> spiritually different from Sparta.  Still, at the time of the Greco-Persian
> war, the Athenians and Spartans must have had enough in common for the
> Athenians to cite the four elements of their common identity to the Spartan
> messenger.
> 
> But the further one moves from the quadripartite Classical definition of
> identity, the more the strength and cohesion of a people is diluted.  This
> is so because the elements which give rise to feelings of otherness gain in
> power, and consequently the elements of commonality diminish.  Classical
> identity works because it’s based on nature, both human psychological
> nature and larger biological nature.

The market place is survival as is military defense.  And it's better 
when defense is on a personal and non lethal way.


> Applying this model to the history of Western civilization, we can see that
> the peak of Western identity in terms of cohesion and strength was probably
> the Middle Ages.  Despite the diversity of European customs and languages,
> Latin was the lingua franca that united the educated peoples of every
> European country, and Christianity was the faith of the whole continent.
> One could go to any church in Western Europe and partake in the same Latin
> mass.  The racial identity of Europeans was, I think, a given – an obvious
> fact of nature that need not even be dwelt upon.  This entire scenario
> stands in stark contrast to contemporary Europe and North America, where
> racial, linguistic, religious and cultural diversity are pushed to further
> and further extremes, with predictable consequences.
> 

This is the opposite of Multiculturalism and is what Democrats preach 
today, the Democrats say we have to accept all cultures together and 
equal, but we do it under their cult's religion. I'm saying it's NOT 
constitutional.

Progresivism or Communism or Marxism "isn't who we are" as per our U.S. 
Constitution that makes it unconstitutional... yet Democrats want to 
take over and force us into their THEOCRACY of LEFTIST CULT POLITICS.

> The coming together of the greater Hellenic world to resist the Persian
> invasion offers an inspiration and a model for contemporary Western people
> who value their identity and heritage.  However, it should also be
> remembered that ultimately, the differences between Athens and Sparta
> proved greater than their commonalities, and the two city-states destroyed
> each other in the Peloponnesian War, a mere fifty years or so after their
> shared victory over the Persians.
> 

And the parallel is that the Democrats are traitors to the U.S. 
Constitution and have sided with the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT of the 
(Persian tyranny) the Fascists of the planet want to control us.

Like the Persians, we now have the ONE WOLD FASCIST'S CULT, who yet 
again has decided to try to become the one world leader as did the 
Persians under their Cult's "God" and the POLITICAL LEADER who was all 
one and the same as they are also today.  And the Democrats today are 
not out to help us defend our home from the BARBARIANS at the GATES.

It seems that the one world fascist cult is a recurring nightmare and 
their hoards are now on our door step.


> Perhaps the unspoken fifth element of identity is a common enemy.
> 
> <https://martinaurelio.wordpress.com/2016/06/11/four-elements-of-identity/>
> 
> <https://archive.ph/Frtfj>
> 
https://jaapl.org/content/44/1/53

It's a cult and a fascist political entity all rolled into one. Like the 
Islam of Iran.

And according to the U.S. Constitution "That's NOT who we are"

Democrats that all the time yet they always seem to be saying that 
phrase when they violate the U.S. Constitution.





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-That's Karma-

*IF YOU'RE READING THIS YOU ARE A SURVIVOR*
*The first rule of SURVIVAL CLUB* is we talk about it, we hate 
censorship. Never trust what Democrats or Marxists tell you. Make them 
prove it with actual verifiable facts and science. And if you didn't 
find the duplicitous lies in what the Marxist-Democrats told you then 
you didn't dig deep enough. The *Gruber* *Doctrine* is the 
Marxist-Democrat plan that says it's "to the Democrats advantage to have 
a lack of transparency and then lie about everything".
https://rumble.com/vkt8ld-call-it-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-or-whatever.-how-libs-exploit-t.html

*The next rule of SURVIVAL CLUB* is
*ObamaCare The Big Lie/The Gruber Doctrine*
https://rumble.com/vkt8ld-call-it-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-or-whatever.-how-libs-exploit-t.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUpJDzyRnY#t=25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so

"If you like your plan you can keep it" -Obama-