Re: The Holy Bible

On Fri, 21 Aug 2026 03:48:17 -0700, Samuel Spade <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2026 22:05:02 -0700, Samuel Spade <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> >(much snippage throughout)
>
>
>> If you put together a government, and an enemy of yours came in and
>> took it over, would you write about your humiliating defeat? That is
>> what the self-righteous pharoes of Egypt contended with.
>
>Ok, so a evil pharoah destroyed all written references to
>Jews having ever been in israel.

Right.

>
>
>> >Biggest argument against exodus: After the 1967 war, Israeli
>> >archaeologists had 7 years to comb the Sinai for traces of
>> >millions of hebrews wandering in the desert.  They had every
>> >motivation to find something, even ashes from fire pits, or
>> >shards of pottery.  They found nothing.
>> 
>> That is likely because they looked in the wrong spot. As that
>> Egyptologist above said, their exact route is debated. 
>> 
>> So that's to be expected if they traced the route they took wrong.
>> 
>> "The exact path of the biblical Exodus is historically and
>> geographically debated, with no definitive archaeological consensus." 
>> (AI Overview)
>> >
>> >You can't have 2 million lost Jews wandering the little sinai
>> >peninsula for 40 years without leaving a trace.
>> 
>> Correct. So if they search the right spot, they will get their
>> evidence. 
>
>Sinai pretty much has 1 way in.  Then they wandered down to
>Mt. Sinai, the route there is pretty obvious.  Then back
>along the sea and eventually to canaan.  So the diggers knew
>where to start looking.

Since they found no evidence and the route is debatable, likely that
was not the correct path.

>
>2 million people is a big mobile city.  Where did they hunt
>and poop and cook and cut firewood and bake pottery?

Remember, we are in the Bible now. And God got them out of bondage, so
He would provide the necessities. 

>
>Moses died on Mt Nebo.  That pretty much narrows it down
>where they entered Canaan.

Since it debatable today, we will have to see what exactness the
future brings. 

With God as their guide, He miraculously provided them with food.
(manna)

In another miracle, He also made sure their cloths and sandals would
not wear out during those 40 years. (Deut 8:4; 29:5)

>
>
>> >The exodus never happened.
>> 
>> Then there should be millions of Hebrews living in Egypt today.
>
>They were never there.
>
>There is, however, archaeological evidence that the pyramids
>were built by highly skilled, well paid craftsmen who
>consumed a lot of bread and beer.  The builders were not
>slaves.

And some even think the building of them happened from the inside, not
outside. (https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna17873984)


>
>
>> >> >> >God appeared to Abraham (Gen 18)
>> >> >> >Jacob saw God (Gen 32)
>> >> >> >Moses spoke with God face to face, as to a 
>> >> >> >	friend (Ex 33:11)
>> >> >> >Moses, Aaron & 70 elders saw God (Ex 24)
>> >> >> >God shows Moses his butt (Ex 33:23)
>> >> >> >   As illustrated by Michelangelo on the ceiling 
>> >> >> >   of the Sistine Chapel:
>> >> >> ><https://www.dailyartmagazine.com/michelangelo-warrior-pope-and-gods-bottom/>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>  
>> >> >> See above.
>> >
>> >God spoke to Moses face to face, or the scripture lies. Using
>> >angel intermediaries is not face to face.
>
>Ok.

The apostle John plainly said: 

New King James
1 John 4:12  No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another,
God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 

And Luke supported that statement:

- Revised Standard
Acts 7:53  you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not
keep it." 

There is no contradiction there. Angels stood in for God and fully
represented Him.

>
>> >> >> >Who did Mary and Mary Magdalene see at Jesus's tomb?
>
>Covered elsewhere.
>
>
>> Only looks that way on the surface. But dig under the surface, and you
>> may be surprised on what you find.
>
>Denial ain't just a river in the Sinai.

Well, I do deny many of the doctrines of the churches. 

>
>(snip geneology, which appears contradictory)

If you read it with prejudiced, I am not surprised. 

>
>> >> >You are thinking God made physics.  I think Nature did. 
>> >> 
>> >> Yet 'nature', like evolution, has no brain! Yet it conjured up all the
>> >> forces to be used in a certain mathematical way to produce the
>> >> complicated laws of physics?? People put a lot of stock in random
>> >> chance. 
>> >
>> >So?
>> >
>> >Is it a surprise that a universe would have natural laws that
>> >function, well, universally?  That's not evidence for God,
>> >only evidence for (as far as we know) consistent natural
>> >laws.
>> 
>> All laws come from somewhere. They just didn't pop out of the vacuum
>> of space. 
>
>How do you know that?  It probably makes sense to you, but
>there's no reason to assume it.

There is every reason, when you believe in a Creator. 

>
>
>> >This is the fallacy of argument from ignorance; you don't
>> >understand how natural laws can exist without God, therefore
>> >they can't.
>> 
>> The laws of physics are mathmatically sound. How can something with no
>> brain, produce them?
>
>Why did natural laws require a brain, or consciousness, to
>exist?


>
>Why is pi not 3?  

Because it is always the circumference divided by its diameter and
always comes out the same infinite number. Rounded it's 3.1416

Why is the earth rock and not chocolate ice
>cream?

Because choc ice cream takes an intelligence to produce, thus it
doesn't appear in nature.

>
>
>> So you believe a force with no mind and an IQ of zero, created super
>> complex things like the human brain? Now who is being silly.
>
>Yes, almost certainly.

Your "almost" leaves some doubt open.

>
>You deny that it's possible, but you can't articulate why
>it's impossible, other than saying it's implausible and
>silly.

Logic, and the fantastic complex design of the human body. 


>
>> >There was no canopy of water storing floodwaters for noah's
>> >flood.
>> 
>> Are you so sure? 
>> 
>> "In a study published Thursday in Science, researchers present new
>> evidence that Earth has had its water since the very beginning -- no
>> asteroids required."
>> (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/11/13/ancient-volcanic-rocks-suggest-that-earths-water-arrived-surprisingly-early/)
>> 
>> For example, this article appeared in the New Scientist magazine, Jan
>> 3, 2009. The first few paragraphs state:
>> 
>> "Ancient Earth was a barren waterworld 
>
>How long earth has had water is irrelevant.  Noah's flood
>would have been ~4000 years ago.  Where did the water come
>from and where did it go?

Where did it go? 3/4 of the earth is covered with it.

Where did it come from? Like Venus has sulphuric acid as a cloud
canopy surrounding the planet, the earth had a WATER canopy sour
rounding it. (see above what some scientists say)

>
>
>> Until around 2.5 billion years
>
>Irrelevant.

Evolution is irrelevant. The Bible is most relevant.

Right now your future is an average of about 100 years, if that.
And when you die you make some dust. The Bible says it doesn't have to
be that way. ETERNAL LIFE is waiting for all, because of Jesus'
sacrifice.


>
>> "NEW VIEW of the young earth covered in oceans of liquid water as
>> early as 4.4 billion years ago contrasts sharply with the hot, hostile
>> world typically depicted in textbooks." (Scientific
>> American)(http://geotest.tamu.edu/userfiles/GEOL106/CoolEarlyEarthSciAm2005.pdf)
>> 
>> Thus, scientists are knowingly or unknowingly, supporting the Genesis
>> account of creation. If this turns out to be accepted as fact, how
>
>It doesn't support Genesis.  You just admitted the earth is
>at least 4.4 billion years old.  So much for Creation.

The Bible has no problem with that figure. Let's see why not.

-- King James
Genesis 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Does it say how long ago? Nope. Just says the earth didn't pop up on
its own. 

Yes, I know it talks about 'days' of the creation. Although a day of
course is 24 hours, in Genesis the use of the word "day" can mean many
days. (if you want comments on the Genesis creation account, just ask.

But back to the topic about a day. After going over each of the six
'days', we find this statement at Genesis 2:4:

-- New King James
Genesis 2:4  This is the history of the heavens and the earth when
they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the
heavens, 

Notice how the writer summed up ALL the days it took to do the
creating, into just one day. So at least in early Genesis, a day can
be an unspecified length.

The apostle Paul said that the 7th day is still go on in his day. And
by now that "day" is thousands of years long. (Heb 4:1-11) So the
creation days could have been the same.

>
>> could the Genesis writer have known about such things? You might be
>> amazed at how scientifically accurate the Genesis creation account is,
>> once you investigate it. 
>
>Days and nights happening before the sun was created?
>Earth created before the sun & stars?
>Firmament?

Do you know when the sun was created? Gen 1:1.

-- King James
Genesis 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth

So that starts the beginning. If you were there with a cell phone, you
would have seen the sun shinning brightly, stars in the heavens, and
the planet earth. 

Now, going on in Vs 2 and 3, God is preparing the raw earth for
habitation. And in the beginning the earth was surrounded with a water
canopy. (if Venus can do it, with a substance twice as heavy as water
(sulphuric acid), then so can Genesis. 

>
>
>> The weight of water has everything to do with it. 
>> 
>> As the facts tell us, Venus is surrounded by surfuric acid clouds.
>> SULFURIC ACID IS ABOUT TWICE AS HEAVY AS WATER, PER GALLON. Yet it
>> still is found in its atmosphere! So logically the lighter water
>> physically could have surrounded the earth at one early time.
>
>You do understand that the surface of Venus is 900°F, right?
>The water and sulfuric acid are gasses.
>
>Again, if the earth had another 29,000 ft of water above the
>surface, the surface pressure would be thousands of PSI, and
>the water would block all sunlight.

That's why Gen 1:2  shows darkness on the earth's surface.
>
>> >> >(round earth hanging etc)
>> >> >> >> So in summary we have:
>
>Covered elsewhere.  To recap, you have Job saying earth hangs
>and Isaiah saying it's round, which could be round/flat or
>round/spheroid.  

Have you criticized NASA for saying "the ends of the earth"? That
implies the earth is flat or cubical. So NASA can get away with it,
but the Bible not? That's called "bias". And is not very scientific.


>You also have a multitude of verses in OT
>and new using descriptions like "immovable", foundation,
>suggesting you can see the whole world from top of an
>exceeding high mountain.

Need the verses you are referring to.
>
>My conclusion: mostly flat-earth geocentric cosmology.
>YMMV.

Just don't travel too fast, or the  police may invoke a PIT on you.

>
>> >> The book of Job, around the 15th century BCE. ("hangs the earth upon
>> >> nothing"). How would sheepherders of all people, know such things?
>> >
>> >No, Job is about a thousand years later than that.
>> 
>> "Writer: Moses
>> Place Written: Wilderness
>> Writing Completed: c. 1473 B.C.E."
>> (All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial)
>
>AI Overview                 Scholars estimate that the Book
>of Job was written between the 7th and 4th centuries BCE,
>primarily during the Babylonian or Persian periods, though
>the setting of the story depicts an earlier patriarchal era.

You mean we don't all agree on DATES? How shocking!

>
>Most of the OT was oral tradition, finally written down a lot
>later than most believers realize.

And your proof?

Also, you might be forgetting, the Bible is primarily a RELIGIOUS
book. And 2 Tim3:16 says that God influenced the writing of it. So
most of it should be accurate. The original writings would have been
perfect. 

But all we have today is copies of copies written by imperfect men.
That is why a critical study of the Bible was necessary to prove as
much of it as possible if God was really behind it. The JW's have done
that, and continue to do that. 

Just compare the creation story of the Babylonians with the Bible. 

The Babylonian creation account says the god Apsu along with the
goddess Tiamat created other gods.
Apsu later on didn't like these other gods and tried to kill them, but
he ended up getting killed by the god Ea. Tiamat was upset at the
killing of Apsu and thus tried to kill Ea. Instead, Ea's son Marduk
killed her.
Marduk split her body in half, and with one half made the sky and the
other half made the earth. Marduk then with the help of Ra, made
mankind from the blood of the god, Kingu.

Whew!

Now the Bible's account in Genesis. According to Genesis God created
the oceans first, then land, vegetation, marine life, birds, mammals,
then man. No, I'm sure you don't agree with the exact order (such as
birds before mammals) but overall, it should be fairly close. Now
compare that with the Babylonian account. Which sounds more
reasonable? Which is more in line with the sciences of today? (please
answer)


Earthquakes:Jesus said
some things about them.
Go to: jw.org (8/22/2026)
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