Re: Karma, and fires (was: Re: The unspoken truth about wildfires)

At Mon, 03 Aug 2026 01:31:24 +0000, Creon <[email protected]> wrote:

> At Sun, 2 Aug 2026 23:00:44 -0000 (UTC), Tara <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Tara <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Creon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> At Sun, 2 Aug 2026 12:57:40 -0400, Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>> On 8/2/2026 12:31 PM, Noah Sombrero wrote:
> > >>>> On Sun, 2 Aug 2026 12:21:43 -0400, Wilson <[email protected]>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>> 
> > >>>>> On 7/31/2026 6:34 PM, dart200 wrote:
> > >>>>>> On 7/31/26 3:11 PM, Tara wrote:
> > >>>>>>> dart200 <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> On 7/31/26 1:28 PM, Tara wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2026 at 4:02:41?PM EDT, "Tara" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2026 at 3:46:18?PM EDT, "dart200"
> > >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/26 12:35 PM, Tara wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2026 at 3:11:12?PM EDT, "dart200"
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/26 11:25 AM, Julian wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 31/07/2026 19:06, Tara wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2026 at 12:40:32?PM EDT, "Wilson"
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/30/2026 3:50 PM, Tara wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Julian <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/07/2026 19:56, Tara wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2026 at 2:53:09?PM EDT, "Julian"
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/07/2026 19:29, Tara wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 30, 2026 at 2:04:17?PM EDT, "Julian"
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sadly he was proved right. So was I. After I warned in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very pages
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last year that government policy was worsening the fire
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk on
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moorland, it gives me no pleasure to say: ‘I told you so.’
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Ridley
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indigenous peoples in North America have been conrolling
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threat of wild
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fires with prescribed/controlled burns for centuries.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Canada is
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking to do
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same in co-operation with our native people. We have a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem doing this
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however because of the acessibility and vastness of our
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forests.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But in a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> country the size of Britain (and other European
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> countries), it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to me
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that controlled fires are a no brainer.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are inaccessible fires in vast forests really a problem?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think they're as likely good for the land's long term
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> health.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is that, but an uncontrolled fire can massively grow
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send a lot of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smoke to people populated areas.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A bit like a volcano.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah like that.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The northeast US is hundreds of miles from the wildfires yet
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we've had
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serious air quality warnings this year and last. A few weeks
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literally dimmed the sun for several days, making what was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear day look cloudy.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wildfires-smoke-millions-exposed-
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> midwest-northeast-us/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those pictures are not an exaggeration. That's what it really
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looked
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile the idiot treehuggers think they know what's best.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am an admitted tree hugger but I am also a realist and think
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one answer
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here is controlled burning. Another is education and strictly
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enforced
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> against those who are careless and start fires through
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laziness and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorance,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clearing vegetation around and near dwellings and building
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fire resistent
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> homes.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would probably be more effective than increasing the price
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of petrol, gas and electricity for already stretched workers.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> jooliean you truly are a useless fucking retard. this ofc isn't
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> written
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for u cause ur determined to take ur damned ignorance to the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> grave, but
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the record:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> not only are boreal forest are far too vast to effectively mitigate
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> increased risk from climate change, meaning we haven't even been
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> engaging in serious fire suppression for the much of forest so
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> _not_ the cause like cons desperate wants to believe; just
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> burns don't even effectively mitigate risk as the ecology of a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> boreal
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> forest is different than a temperate one, so it requires fuel
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> management
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> strategies that are far more labor intensive
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Ummm. if you care to look back a bit, the problem with boreal
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> forests (in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Canada) has already been addressed.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>> why are you such a dumb fucking liar tara???
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>> all u discussed was the size of the forest, u did not discuss the
> > >>>>>>>>>>> fact
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the conventional controlled burns do not effectively mitigate fire
> > >>>>>>>>>>> risk
> > >>>>>>>>>>> in boreal forests, nor the increased costs of the various techniques
> > >>>>>>>>>>> that must be employed instead
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>>>> and you still haven't even after i've pointed it out in several
> > >>>>>>>>>>> posts.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> clear evidence of refusing to face the facts like a retarded boomer
> > >>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>>> Of course we can't do anything about fires in the boreal forest.
> > >>>>>>>>> That's a
> > >>>>>>>>> given ffs We can only do what we can to protect the boundaries. !!!
> > >>>>>>>>> Idiot!
> > >>>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>> great so u never mentioned that to joolian or his mindbogglingly stupid
> > >>>>>>>> article
> > >>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>> u only admitted it after i pressed for several comments, so i have no
> > >>>>>>>> reason to believe u would have ever mentioned it otherwise.
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> Chill. I think I said something to the effect that we have vast forest
> > >>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>> we can’t do anything about. Maybe not but I don’t understand why
> > >>>>>>> you’re so
> > >>>>>>> on about it. Pick the battles that matter. Or maybe just take a break eh
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> the freaking article suggest climate change is not a cause of wildfire
> > >>>>>> implying it's largely a problem of mismanagement and suppression...
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> completely ignoring that boreal forests, where the largest increase in
> > >>>>>> risk is seen, are largely not managed anyways due to not only the sheer
> > >>>>>> size but also the fact that managing fuel costs ~10x that of temperate
> > >>>>>> forest. normal controlled burns aren't an option cause the risks are
> > >>>>>> just different.
> > >>>>> I think the expectation is a warming climate will be dryer and that will
> > >>>>> increase wildfires.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> Satellite data only goes back to the 1980s. But there's solid scientific
> > >>>>> evidence based on fire scar date from tree rings on old growth trees and
> > >>>>> studies of sediment data that shows reconstructed wildfire history over
> > >>>>> thousands of years.
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> That evidence indicates that during the 20th century in North America
> > >>>>> there's been fewer acres burned than in previous periods. They're
> > >>>>> calling it a "wildfire drought".
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11811286/
> > >>>>> https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1112839109
> > >>>>> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3295264/
> > >>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/388852965
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Strange how you can come up with results that show the exact opposite
> > >>>> of accepted research.
> > >>> 
> > >>> That was literally accepted research.
> > >> 
> > >> That you apparently would do well to read.
> > >> 
> > >> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11811286/
> > >> Abstract
> > >> Rapid increases in wildfire area burned across North American forests
> > >> pose novel challenges for managers and society. Increasing area burned
> > >> raises questions about whether, and to what degree, contemporary fire
> > >> regimes (1984–2022) are still departed from historical fire regimes (pre-1880).[. . .]
> > >> 
> > >> Since you seem to confuse the count of fires (quantitative) with
> > >> the size of fires (qualitative), you are succumbing to a type II
> > >> error.
> > >> 
> > >> BTW, the Tubbs Fire in 2017 -- for which we evacuated, and from which
> > >> parts of Santa Rosa burned down -- could have been kept near Calistoga
> > >> if it wasn't for the Santa Ana winds that turned it into a firestorm.
> > >> The burn path was similar to the Hanly fire of 1964, and you would
> > >> be correct to say not enough was done to prevent a recurrence.
> > >> 
> > >> BTW, there is a troll in another newsgroup that continues to
> > >> say that he wishes California would burn.  This, because he
> > >> disagrees with (and apparently envies) our politics, our
> > >> economics, our technology...
> > >> 
> > >> When he, in Colorado, was finally threatened by a wildfire,
> > >> I told him that a) I didn't want Colorado to burn, but that b)
> > >> I hoped he would "die in a fire".
> > >> 
> > >> Since then, I've had the worst week of "bad karma" of my life.
> > >> My wife and I apparently contracted Covid-19 on the way home
> > >> from our cruise, which means we are missing a gathering today
> > >> that I'd been looking forward to for a couple of months.  We
> > >> might also miss seeing AC/DC on Wednesday.
> > >> 
> > >> But that's not the worst of it.
> > >> 
> > >> A couple of days ago, my favorite cat, Julie, died suddenly;
> > >> whether by stroke, aneurysm, or cardiac issue we don't know.
> > >> She just let out a moaning sound and collapsed.
> > >> 
> > >> It was probably something stress-related, since she had just
> > >> interacted with Kazumi, one of our other cats -- she hissed
> > >> at him to warn him to stay out of "her" room (my office).
> > >> 
> > >> Julie and I were very close.  She would perch on my shoulder
> > >> and watch while I used the computer.  She was a "foster failure",
> > >> where we had taken her off a friend's hands because the friend
> > >> couldn't handle having another cat anymore.
> > >> 
> > >> Couldn't pet her when we first got her, as the previous
> > >> environment was not very loving, I'm afraid...but over the
> > >> years, she had learned to trust us, and I think she was
> > >> the sweetest inky in Santa Rosa.
> > >> 
> > >> (She was with us when we evacuated for the Glass fire, a fire
> > >> that I haven't even mentioned yet.)
> > >> 
> > > 
> > > Every time I’ve brought another animal into my life I know that the
> > > inevitable will come. I’m sorry you’ve lost your Julie and I hope your
> > > karma has run its course. For now anyway because it’s always a for now. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > P.S. don’t forget about the Rainbow Bridge. :)
> 
> If there is a "God", then there has to be a Rainbow Bridge. :)
> 
> I would say more about that, but it has gotten very dusty
> in this room all of a sudden...
> 
> Okay, I guess I can't leave it with that.  I'll just point
> out that Heraclitus was writing of a "Logos" 500 BCE...and
> no, it wasn't the one from John 1:1.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclitus
> 
> I take it to mean "divine order" (which many scholars think
> Heraclitus probably meant).  To me, that means the "Laws of Nature".
> 
> If consciousness is an inherent property of the Cosmos,
> it gives me comfort to know that she is will all of us now.

s/will/with/

Wonder if that's just a brain-o, or a Freudian slip of some sort?

> 
> (Dang that dust!)

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