Re: Churches God Vs Bible God

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Wed, 26 Aug 2026 20:48:42 -0400,
  <[email protected]>
  Satan's Witness <[email protected]> wrote:
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> Churches: Righteous OT persons went to Heaven.
> Bible: No OT persons went to Heaven. (John 3:13)

More Satan's Witnesses LIES:

The Heavenly State of Old Testament Saints and the True Meaning of John 3:13

I. Old Testament Believers Entered God's Heavenly Presence

      1. 2 Kings 2:11 — "And as they still went on and talked,
         behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two
         of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2
         Kings 2:11 ESV)

The Bible explicitly states that Elijah went directly up into heaven. To 
assert that no Old Testament person entered heaven directly contradicts 
the plain text of Scripture.

      2. Genesis 5:24 — "Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God
         took him." (Genesis 5:24 ESV) Hebrews 11:5 — "By faith Enoch
         was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not
         found, because God had taken him." (Hebrews 11:5 ESV)

Enoch was taken directly by God into His presence without experiencing 
physical death. Scripture plainly records that God took him up.

      3. Matthew 17:3 — "And behold, there appeared to them Moses and
         Elijah, talking with him." (Matthew 17:3 ESV) Luke 9:30–31 —
         "And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah,
         who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was
         about to accomplish at Jerusalem." (Luke 9:30–31 ESV)

Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration 
"in glory." Moses could not appear in heavenly glory if he were 
completely excluded from God's presence.

      4. Matthew 8:11 — "I tell you, many will come from east and west
         and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the
         kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 8:11 ESV)

Jesus Himself declares that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are in the kingdom 
of heaven, and that believers will recline at table with them.


      5. Luke 20:37–38 — "But that the dead are raised, even Moses
         showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord
         the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
         Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live
         to him." (Luke 20:37–38 ESV)

God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Abraham, Isaac, and 
Jacob are alive unto God.

Proposition: The Scriptures explicitly affirm that Old Testament saints 
such as Elijah, Enoch, Moses, and Abraham entered into the presence and 
glory of God in heaven.

II. The True Meaning of John 3:13

      1. John 3:11–13 — "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what
         we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not
         receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and
         you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly
         things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who
         descended from heaven, the Son of Man." (John 3:11–13 ESV)

The context of John 3:13 is a discourse regarding divine revelation and 
authority. Jesus is responding to Nicodemus concerning who has the 
authority to reveal heavenly mysteries.


      2. Proverbs 30:4 — "Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who
         has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the
         waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the
         earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name, if you
         know?" (Proverbs 30:4 ESV)

John 3:13 answers the ancient question posed in Proverbs 30:4. No human 
being has ascended into heaven by his own power or initiative to acquire 
divine knowledge and return to reveal it to men.

      3. John 1:18 — "No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at
         the Father's side, he has made him known." (John 1:18 ESV)

Christ alone possesses original, firsthand authority as the Son who 
descended from heaven to make God known. John 3:13 does not teach that 
the souls of Old Testament believers were denied heaven; it teaches that 
no human teacher can claim to have gone up to heaven to fetch divine wisdom.

Proposition: John 3:13 establishes Christ's exclusive authority as the 
divine Revealer of heavenly truth; it does not deny the heavenly state 
of redeemed Old Testament believers.

III. The Theological Unity of Salvation for Old and New Testament Believers

      1. Romans 4:3 — "For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham
         believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.'"
         (Romans 4:3 ESV)

Old Testament saints were saved by faith in God's promise, just as New 
Testament saints are saved by faith in Christ's fulfillment.

      2. Hebrews 11:13, 16 — "These all died in faith, not having
         received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted
         them from afar... But as it is, they desire a better country,
         that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be
         called their God, for he has prepared for them a city."
         (Hebrews 11:13, 16 ESV)

God prepared a heavenly city for the Old Testament patriarchs who died 
in faith.

      3. Hebrews 12:22–23 — "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the
         city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to
         innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of
         the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the
         judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made
         perfect." (Hebrews 12:22–23 ESV)

The "spirits of the righteous made perfect"—which includes the faithful 
of former generations—reside in the heavenly Jerusalem.

Proposition: Both Old and New Testament believers are part of one 
redeemed body, cleansed by the atonement of Christ, and sharing in the 
same heavenly inheritance.

-- 
Good News †

Jesus is God: christrose.news/Jesus-God.

To be saved, one must believe the only true gospel: Christ died for our 
sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Galatians 1:8-9). 
Every false gospel leads individuals to conscious, eternal torment in 
the lake of fire (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9; John 3:18-19; Revelation 
14:9-11; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:14-15). Denying that Jesus is 
God means dying in your sins (John 8:24).

The crucifixion of Christ completely satisfied the debt of our sins 
toward God (Colossians 2:14), which God verified by bringing Him back to 
life (Romans 1:4). As a result, God is proven just when He forgives 
believers (Romans 3:26) and delivers them from the approaching wrath (1 
Thessalonians 1:10). Eternal salvation is a free gift appropriated by 
faith (Romans 6:23). If you believe in Him, call on the Lord for your 
deliverance (Romans 10:9-13):

How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation