Re: Psalm 7: EBTC Insights

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Tue, 25 Aug 2026 01:51:44 +0000,
  <[email protected]>
  Mitchell Holman <[email protected]> wrote:
========================================

> Christ Rose <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> 
>> ========================================
>> Sat, 22 Aug 2026 13:33:01 +0000,
>>    <[email protected]>
>>    Mitchell Holman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ========================================
>>
>>> Christ Rose <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> ========================================
>>>> Wed, 19 Aug 2026 02:20:22 +0000,
>>>>     <[email protected]>
>>>>     Mitchell Holman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> ========================================
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         Why would any god make in "attributes"
>>>>> invisible?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         • Invisibility is inherent to God's nature as a spirit
>>>>         being.
>>>>           "God is a spirit, and those who worship Him must worship
>>>>           Him in spirit and truth" (John 4:24).
>>>>
>>>>         • God made his invisible attributes evident to man through
>>>>           creation (Romans 1:20; Psalm 19), specific revelation
>>>>           (Psalm 19; Hebrews 1:1, 2 Timothy 3:16), and by the
>>>>           incarnation of Jesus Christ (John 1:14, 18; Colossians
>>>>           1:15).
>>>>
>>>>         • If God showed men His full spirit glory without shielding
>>>>         them
>>>>           from it in the body of Christ, it would kill them: “Then
>>>>           Moses said, “I pray, show me Your glory....He said,
>>>>           “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and
>>>>           live.”” (Exodus 33:18–20, MEV)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Note: I said "full spirit glory".
>>
>>
>>> And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as
>>> a man speaketh to his friend.
>>> Exodus 33:11
>>
>>
>> Just a few verses later in the same chapter (Exodus 33:20–23), God
>> explicitly tells Moses, "You cannot see My face," and places Moses in
>> the cleft of a rock, covering him with His hand so Moses only sees His
>> "back" as He passes by. The phrase "face to face" in verse 11 simply
>> denotes a deep, intimate, conversational relationship, not a visual
>> sighting of God's unveiled shekinah-glory ("full spirit glory").
>>
>>
>>> For I have seen God face to face, and my life
>>> is preserved.
>>> Genesis 32:30
>>
>>
>> idem.
>>
>>
>>> And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said,
>>> Unto thy seed will I give this land:
>>> Genesis 12:7
>>
>>
>> idem.
>>
>>
>>> And when Abram was ninety years old and nine,
>>> the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him..
>>> Genesis 17:1
>>
>>
>> idem.
>>
>>
>>> And the LORD appeared unto Isaac, and said,
>>> Go not down into Egypt
>>> Genesis 26:2
>>
>>
>> idem.
>>
>>
>>> And the LORD appeared unto Isaac the same
>>> night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy
>>> father: fear not.
>>> Genesis 26:24
>>
>>
>> idem.
>>
>>
>>> And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came
>>> out of Padanaram, and blessed him.
>>> Genesis 35:9
>>
>>
>> idem.
>>
>>> And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared
>>> unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan.
>>> Genesis 48:3
>>>
>>
>> idem.
>>
>> As noted, this was a reference to God's "full spirit glory"
>> (Shekinah). In the places you cite, God appeared in a form which
>> veiled it. God was not manifesting his "full spirit glory" in those
>> instances, but a veiled form they could tolerate. These appearances
>> are typical, pointing forward to Christ's incarnation, where God's
>> glory was veiled within the temple of His human body (John 1:14; John
>> 2:19-21; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 10:19-20).
>>
>> John 1:18 states: "No man has seen God at any time. The only Son, who
>> is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."
>>
> 
> 
>      Yes, the Bible is full of contradictions.


Your original question was to the effect why did God make His attributes 
invisible. The answer is because He's a spirit being, so He's inherently 
invisible to us, and because direct exposure to the full glory of His 
spirit face would kill men.

When the Bible says He spoke to men face to face, it refers to the 
visible form God allowed men to see (e.g. Moses watching God's backside, 
and Jesus Christ veiling God's glory in human flesh). When it says no 
man can see me and live, it refers to the full shekinah glory of His 
face, not the veiled way He appeared to mortal men. There is no 
contradiction here, other than the one imposed by those who wish to 
suppress the knowledge of the truth.



>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        It is your claim that people born
>>>>> before Jesus should be condemned for
>>>>> not following Jesus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    From the time man sinned until now, God has always declared men
>>>> righteous and delivered them from condemnation through faith in His
>>>> promise of a coming "seed" (Christ) who would be their redeemer.
>>
>>
>> Note: It says God has always declared men righteous and delivered them
>> from condemnation "through faith in His promise...". This does not
>> mean that all men will put faith in God's promises and be saved, but
>> that God has always offered salvation to all men through faith in His
>> promise.
>>
>>>        
>>> The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the
>>> human race had become on the earth, and that
>>> every inclination of the thoughts of the human
>>> heart was only evil all the time. The Lord
>>> regretted that he had made human beings on the
>>> earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
>>> Genesis 6:5
>>
>>
>> Idem. They were condemned because they did not believe God's warnings
> 
> 
>      What warnings? Show us the pre-flood
> warnings God gave to humanity.



God declared it:

“Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he 
is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”” (Genesis 6:3, ESV)

“So the LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the 
face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the 
heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”” (Genesis 6:7, ESV)

“And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, 
for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will 
destroy them with the earth.” (Genesis 6:13, ESV)

“For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy 
all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that 
is on the earth shall die. But I will establish my covenant with you, 
and you shall come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your 
sons’ wives with you.” (Genesis 6:17–18, ESV)

Noah warned them about it:

“...Noah warned the world of God’s righteous judgment. So God protected 
Noah when he destroyed the world of ungodly people with a vast flood.” 
(2 Peter 2:5, NLT)

It says Noah warned them. He was a herald of righteousness. He was 
building the ark for years in their sight.

They rejected the knowledge of God in creation:

Even without a specific warning or revelation of how to become saved, 
men are justly condemned, since they deliberately reject and suppress 
the knowledge of God which is evident to them in creation (Romans 1).

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness 
and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the 
truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has 
shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal 
power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the 
creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are 
without excuse.” (Romans 1:18–20, ESV)

> 
>> and promise of salvation ("through faith"). Noah and his family were
>> saved through faith. Those who rejected the warning of God perished.
>>
>> "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved
>> with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he
>> condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by
>> faith." (Hebrews 11:7)
>>
>> "And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a
>> preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the
>> ungodly;" (2 Peter 2:5)
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>         • In Genesis 3:15, God promised the seed of the woman would
>>>>         crush
>>>>           the head of the serpent (Satan). After the birth of Seth,
>>>>           men began to call on the name of the Lord on the basis of
>>>>           faith in this promise of the coming seed (Genesis 5).
>>>>
>>>>         • Romans 4 and Galatians show that Abraham was declared
>>>>         righteous
>>>>           on the basis of faith in God's promise to provide a "seed"
>>>>           through whom all nations would be blessed (Genesis 12:3,
>>>>           15:5-6, 22:18; Romans 4:3, 13-18; Galatians 3:6-8, 16).
>>>>           Christ is that seed of blessing.
>>>>
>>>>         • Romans 3 shows that Christ's death is a demonstration of
>>>>         God's
>>>>           righteousness against sins that were formerly committed in
>>>>           the Old Testament era (Romans 3:25-26).
>>>>
>>>> Christ's death provides a just atonement for the sins of all men
>>>> past, present, and future. This revelation has been progressive
>>>> through history, and men have always been declared righteous and
>>>> saved through faith in that message.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           Explain the "divine justice" of
>>>>>>> God killing the firstborn children in
>>>>>>> Egypt who never violated any of God's
>>>>>>> laws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The implication of your statement is that people are born
>>>>>> "innocent" and "deserving" of salvation. This is not the case:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         And that is the problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Correct. Faith in Christ's atonement is the solution.
>>>
>>>
>>>       Solution to what?
>>
>>
>> It is the solution not only to man's sin, but also his lack of the
>> inherent righteousness God requires to enter His presence:
>>
>> “For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the
>> scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”
>> (Matthew 5:20, ESV)
>>
>> “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might
>> become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2 Corinthians 5:21, NKJV)
>>
>> Thus, Christ's atonement is the solution in that it not only removes
>> the guilt of our sin, but also imputes to us the righteousness of
>> Christ which is necessary to enter into God's presence.
>>
>>
>>
>>>       The firstborn of Egypt did nothing wrong,
>>> God killed them anyway.
>>
>>
>>        • How do you know the firstborn of Egypt did nothing wrong?
> 
> 
>     The Bible itself shows they were killed
> as a message to Pharaoh, 


Yes.
> not because they personally sinned.

How did you determine that?

The claim that any human being has "done nothing wrong" contradicts the 
clear testimony of Scripture. Romans 3:23 establishes that "all have 
sinned and fall short of the glory of God," and Romans 5:12 affirms that 
death entered the world through sin, spreading to all men. No person, in 
Egypt or elsewhere, stands before God in a state of inherent sinlessness 
or unmerited claim on physical life. God, as the Author and Giver of 
life (Job 1:21), possesses absolute sovereign authority to number the 
days of every individual and execute judgment as He determines.

That it was also a message to Pharaoh does not establish that they 
therefore had no sin. God concludes "all have sinned" (e.g. Romans 3; 
Psalm 51). Consider:

The nation of Egypt had engaged in the systemic, generational 
oppression, enslavement, and state-mandated murder of the Hebrew people. 
Pharaoh commanded in Exodus 1:22: "Every son who is born you shall cast 
into the river." The firstborn of Egypt included adults, household 
heads, and active participants in the Egyptian society that enriched 
itself through the brutal subjugation of Israel. The plague struck "from 
the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the 
captive who was in the dungeon" (Exodus 12:29). Egypt as a whole was 
under divine judgment for shedding innocent blood, and God repaid the 
nation according to its own measure.

The death of Egypt's firstborn was not an arbitrary demonstration of raw 
power, but the exact execution of a righteous judicial sentence 
forewarned from the beginning. In Exodus 4:22-23, God instructed Moses 
to tell Pharaoh before the plagues even began: "Thus says the Lord, 
'Israel is My son, My firstborn. So I say to you, let My son go that he 
may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your 
son, your firstborn.'" Pharaoh and his people repeatedly refused to 
release God's firstborn, choosing defiance over nine successive warnings 
and judgments, thereby bringing the announced penalty upon their own 
households.

Exodus 12:12 states: "For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that 
night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man 
and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I 
am the Lord." The firstborn held religious and social preeminence, often 
dedicated to Egyptian deities. The judgment was a direct, devastating 
strike against the entire spiritual, social, and political system of 
Egypt that stood in open rebellion against the living God.

The plague of the firstborn demonstrated that all within Egypt were 
naturally subject to the exact same wrath. The Israelites themselves 
were not spared because of inherent moral perfection; they were spared 
strictly through the blood of the Passover lamb applied to the doorposts 
(Exodus 12:13). Any household without the covering of the blood—whether 
Egyptian or otherwise—fell under the righteous decree.

The destruction of Egypt's firstborn was a righteous act of divine 
judgment against a defiant, oppressive, and idolatrous nation that 
refused repeated commands to release God's people.



>>          "Firstborn" doesn't even necessitate they were babies. The
>>          first-born could have been 80 years old by the time of that
>>          plague.
>>
>>        • “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
>>        and
>>          are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption
>>          that is in Christ Jesus,” (Romans 3:23–24, ESV). "All"
>>          means "all". The Bible says "all have sinned".
>>
>>        • “The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray
>>        from
>>          birth, speaking lies.” (Psalm 58:3, ESV) The Bible says the
>>          wicked are estranged from the womb. They go astray from birth.
>>
>>        • “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did
>>        my
>>          mother conceive me.” (Psalm 51:5, ESV)
>>
>>        • "...for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his
>>          youth..." (Genesis 8:21)
>>
>>        • "“What is man, that he can be pure? Or he who is born of a
>>          woman, that he can be righteous?” (Job 15:14, ESV)
>>
>>        • ""How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be
>>          clean that is born of a woman?" (Job 25:4)
>>
>>        • Justification with God requires God's declaration of
>>          righteousness, not man's (Romans 3:20-24; Romans 4:3-5; Romans
>>          8:33; Galatians 2:16; Titus 3:5). God knows the secrets
>>          of the hearts and thoughts (Hebrews 4:12-13). He knows not
>>          only what people have done, but what they will do (1 Samuel
>>          23:11-12; 2 Kings 8:12-13; Matthew 11:21-23). We don't.
>>
>>        • Your computer is 100% free from sin. Does that mean it
>>          "deserves" to stay in your presence forever? Won't you in fact
>>          be just when you one day throw it into a trash heap, away from
>>          your presence? Does it possess the inherent righteousness to
>>          "merit" your eternal favor? Entering God's presence in heaven
>>          requires not only a sin-free condition, but also the personal
>>          righteousness of Jesus Christ being imputed to your account (2
>>          Corinthians 5:21).
>>
>> Conclusion: The Bible shows that "all have sinned".
> 
> 
>       Does that mean all can be killed?


It means God is under no moral obligation to keep men alive, allow them 
into heaven, or keep them out of the lake of fire when they die. It does 
not mean men are authorized to murder at their discretion. God invests 
the authority of capital punishment to His governing authorities to 
punish evildoers (Romans 13).


>       What is the point of murder laws when
> all victims deserve to die for their "sin"?


idem.


>>   Even the absence
>> of sin doesn't equal the presence of a righteousness which "deserves"
>> to enter heaven. Only faith in Christ's atonement supplies both the
>> removal of sin and the imputation of righteousness needed to "deserve"
>> to enter God's presence for eternity.
> 
> 
>        When God kills innocent people are they
> barred from Heaven?


God doesn't kill innocent people. All have sinned and fall short of the 
glory of God. God is the only one who knows the thought and secrets of 
men's hearts to make such conclusions accurately.


-- 
Good News †

Christ bore our sins on the cross to clear our debt before God 
(Colossians 2:14), and His resurrection stands as proof of that finished 
work (Romans 1:4). Now, God justly forgives those who believe (Romans 
3:26), granting escape from His impending judgment (1 Thessalonians 
1:10). This mercy is a free gift accessible only through faith (Romans 
6:23). If you believe this truth, call upon the Lord to save you today 
(Romans 10:9-13):

How to be saved: christrose.news/salvation