Re: Public Nudity: Innocent or Sin?

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:19:42 -0800, Someone <[email protected]>
wrote:

...
>Unfortunately, many in evolutionary circles would like you to believe
>that no one believes in creationism but ignorant people. Reality is,
>many (thousands) of educated scientists believe in creationism.

That was shown to be another lie.

Representatives of these organizations and their scientists were
invited to present at trial. Only one showed up. No others wanted to
be cross examined in the light of day.

The scientist who showed up was a real scientist. He used the flagella
motor in his writings and in court as an example of intelligent
design, something that could not have simply evolved because there was
nothing like it anywhere else in any cell. 

In fact, in the trial he was shown, among other items, an example of
the same "design" with almost all the parts used in another bacteria
for a completely different purpose. He was simply mistaken. 

His definition of a scientific "theory" was so broad that he admitted
it included astrology and nearly anything else anyone wanted to claim
was something they "believed" in, with or without evidence.

In this and other areas, he claimed that he was in the mainstream. He
was given stacks of papers and books to the contrary, and was able to
produce not one article of support.

Even so, we scientists feel we need trained people like him who
genuinely disagree. We value his opinion, and we value him taking an
unpopular, divergent perspective. I have no problem with students at
the University level being exposed to and studying his research. 

I have read Creationist work myself. They make the case that evolution
is an unfinished theory. That it is. 

Just because a theory is unfinished, does not mean it cannot be
tested. The predictions of Evolution have been tested over and over,
the latest being via DNA, and found to predict the correct answers.

What does Creationism predict? That some structure or other is too
complex to have evolved, and so it must have been designed.

That's not a prediction. The fact that we don't know how something
evolved does not mean we won't ever know it. This has been going on
for hundreds of years with the Creationists retreating again and again
as new scientific evidence for evolution emerged. The Creationists
have now retreated to microbiology and are losing there.

As the mechanisms get smaller and smaller, will science always find
that it can expand our knowledge to meet the Creationist challenge?

There is one exception. 

We know from Quantum Mechanics that we can *never* know certain
things, like the exact position and momentum of electrons in motion.

Could God be hiding in there? Sure. 

Could God use that to cause things to happen? Sure. Anything and
everything. As long as the QM probabilities eventually work out, we
have no way of knowing whether God did it or it was crazy random QM.
 
Is that a possible Creationist Scientific Theory? No, because for the
same reason we cannot measure exact position and momentum, we can
never test if God is underneath manipulating those things. That's a
hard, physical fact, not some limitation a new device will remove.

At the moment, it looks like God has arranged it so He can do just
about anything He wants, and we can never prove whether He did it or
it just happened that way. We can't control Him except that results
are predictable with some probability. He never violates those
probabilities, and seemingly would never need to in dealing with us.

But aren't the mutations of evolution dependent on QM events? Yup.

What a God! He confounds us all alike, theists and atheists. Whether
He does or doesn't exist will never be ours to know; that's a fact.

And didn't we just conclude that, in reality, we can't even define our
own existence, at least beyond the QM level, where all those
electrodynamic events occur, that constitute every cellular activity.

If we can't define our own existence, how can we define Gods
existence? If we can't define what it means for God to exist, how can
we say whether or not God exists?

Only Humility is left to us, and that is the same as Naturism.

Thanks.