Re: False Satan's Witnesses Bible Doctrines: Eternal Earth

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Sat, 08 Aug 2026 23:48:17 -0700,
  <[email protected]>
  Samuel Spade <[email protected]> wrote:
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> Christ Rose wrote:
> 
>> 1) Forever means undefined horizons, not eternity without end:
> 
> (...)
>> Jonah 2:6
>>
>> I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was
>> about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O
>> LORD my God.
>>
>> Jonah was in the belly of the fish for only three days and three nights,
>> yet he describes that period as being enclosed "for ever." This shows
>> the word can describe a very short, finite period that carries a sense
>> of total enclosure or completion within its setting.
> 
> Here it sounds more like Jonah was talking about his
> expectation at the time, rather than telling the story
> afterwards, being that he wouldn't expect to get out of the
> fish alive.  Since a human in a fish's stomach would have a
> life expectancy of 2 minutes max, that makes sense.


An interesting truth about this is that God "prepared" the fish:

“Now the LORD had prepared [mnh] a great fish to swallow Jonah. And 
Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.” (Jonah 
1:17, NKJV)

The same word for "prepared" is used at the end of the book to describe 
things God supernaturally created or modified:

“And the LORD God prepared [mnh] a plant and made it come up over Jonah, 
that it might be shade for his head to deliver him from his misery. So 
Jonah was very grateful for the plant. But as morning dawned the next 
day God prepared [mnh] a worm, and it so damaged the plant that it 
withered. And it happened, when the sun arose, that God prepared [mnh] a 
vehement east wind; and the sun beat on Jonah’s head, so that he grew 
faint. Then he wished death for himself, and said, “It is better for me 
to die than to live.”” (Jonah 4:6–8, NKJV)

The various uses of that word "mnh" (prepared) in Jonah, show that God 
can create or modify things as needed in order to accomplish his 
purposes: the fish to swallow Jonah and keep him alive; the plant to 
quickly grow and provide shade; the worm to eat the plant; the wind to 
blow vehemently, etc.


> "Forever" isn't functionally different from "for the rest of
> my life".  After death comes eternity, during which Jonah's
> story isn't going to evolve.


Yes, I believe that's the sense here, given that "forever" is a period 
that lasted no longer than three days and nights.


> Of course, the dictionary definition of forever is still
> eternity.


Webster includes "long time" in his definition:

      1 b : for a very long time
	I've been waiting forever for the doctor. (merriam-webster.com)


How the Bible defines it, however, is what matters when interpreting the 
Bible. Given the many contexts which show it means a finite period of 
time, one cannot simply cite a verse which says "forever" in it, and 
conclude it necessitates a never-ending period of time.


>> 2) The Bible directly and repeatedly states the present heavens and
>> earth will be destroyed by fire, dissolve, flee, and be rolled up like a
>> garment.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> But why would God want to destroy "the heavens" with the
> earth?  


The indication from Revelation 21-22 and other Scriptures is that He
will replace them with an eternal, superior, incorruptible heavens and
earth (Isaiah 65:17, 2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1-5).

> Isn't that where he and the angels live?  


God lives in the third heavens with the angels who did not fall with 
Satan in rebellion (2 Corinthians 12:2, Revelation 12:7-9, Jude 1:6, 
Revelation 5:11). This is above the sky and outer-space (2 Corinthians 
12:2, Psalm 115:16, Psalm 148:4). It is my understanding that the 
heavens and earth it says will be destroyed, are the ones God created in 
Genesis 1-2.


> Did the angels offend him?


Yes, some of the angels offended God in Satan's rebellion (2 Peter 2:4, 
Jude 1:6, Revelation 12:7-9).


> We aren't just talking extraterrestrial bodies being
> destroyed.  It says "all the host of heaven", so it's not
> talking about Mars and Europa.  Unless this just reflects an
> iron age notion that God & angels must live somewhere "up
> there".


As I understand it, "All the host of heaven" refers to the creation God 
did in Genesis 1-2:

“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of 
them.” (Genesis 2:1, ESV).

If the "heavens and earth" it's talking about were just created in 
Genesis 1-2, then it can't be the third heavens where God and the good 
angels abide, because that already existed prior to Genesis 1.

As for the evil angels who fell in the rebellion, they will be sent to 
the lake of fire:

““Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, 
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Matthew 
25:41, ESV)

“and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire 
and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be 
tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10, ESV)

So with the devil and his angels being sent to the lake of fire, yes the 
current abode of the fallen angels will be included in the destruction, 
since they were evidently cast down to the created realm it mentions in 
Genesis 1-2 (2 Peter 2:4, Jude 1:6, Revelation 12:7-9, Revelation 20:10).


>> And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be
>> rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the
>> leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
> 
> What's the point of killing off all the angels?  Will the
> good angels all rebel too?  Please do explain.


See above. It's only the angels who rebelled with Satan who will be 
destroyed (Matthew 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4, Revelation 20:10).


> (...)
> 
>> 3) It is the New Heavens and earth which believers inherit for eternity
>> (Revelation 21-22).
> 
> Is that going to be a physical new heaven & earth, or is it a
> metaphor for the brave new spiritual world?


As I understand it, it will be literal, physical, and spiritual, all at
the same time, since the inhabitants will be both spiritual and physical
  at the same time.

When 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 says "flesh and
blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God, it's talking about
"corruptible", "perishable" flesh and blood.

While the
resurrected body will be "spiritual", it will also be like Christ's
glorious body (1 Corinthians 15:35-49; Philippians 3:21).

“who
will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power
  that enables him even to subject all things to himself.” (Philippians
3:21, ESV)

Christ's resurrected body was both glorious,
"spiritual", and imperishable, yet He described it as having "flesh and
bones", and being capable of eating literal fish (Luke 24:39-43,
Philippians 3:21).

“See my hands and my feet, that it is I
myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as
  you see that I have.” And when he had said this, he showed them his
hands and his feet. And while they still disbelieved for joy and were
marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave
him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them.” (Luke
24:39–43, ESV)

So I believe the New Heavens and earth will be
literal, spiritual, and physical all at the same time. It won't be some
ethereal fog, but will be a place you can reach out and touch with a
body that is both "spiritual", yet has literal, incorruptible,
imperishable flesh and bones body like Christ's.


Sources

merriam-webster.com. "Forever". Merriam-webster, 
https://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/forever. Accessed 10 August. 2026.


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