Re: Seeburg STD4 - not playing side A

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 1:31:18 PM UTC-6, John Robertson wrote:
> On 2022/12/04 2:42 p.m., Deanie Spikes wrote: 
> > On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 3:23:00 PM UTC-6, John Robertson wrote: 
> >> On 2022/12/04 10:19 a.m., Deanie Spikes wrote: 
> >>> On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 2:40:39 PM UTC-6, Deanie Spikes wrote: 
> >>>> On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 11:01:51 AM UTC-6, John Robertson wrote: 
> >>>>> On 2022/11/19 8:15 a.m., Deanie Spikes wrote: 
> >>>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 9:48:36 AM UTC-6, John Robertson wrote: 
> >>>>>>> On 2022/11/16 5:49 a.m., Deanie Spikes wrote: 
> >>>>>>>> On Friday, March 5, 2004 at 6:14:08 PM UTC-6, Andy Guthrie wrote: 
> >>>>>>>>> Well thanks for the warning... Unfortunately, it's said and done. I 
> >>>>>>>>> straightened out the contact and side A is now back in the game. 
> >>>>>>>>> Everything is back to its original state, plus side A is working, but I 
> >>>>>>>>> am getting the occasional wrong selection error. 
> >>>>>>>>> The most common mistake seems to be it reading a 5 as a 2 (i.e., playing 
> >>>>>>>>> 126 instead of 156). 
> >>>>>>>>> Until I scrape together the cash for the service manuals... Any suggestions? 
> >>>>>>>>> Happy Seeburg Olympian Owner wrote: 
> >>>>>>>>>> the strip is called a Tormat :) 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> i wold not remove the tormat unless you have the manual!!! the pice that 
> >>>>>>>>>> scans the tormat if i remember right can be removed seperatly <consult the 
> >>>>>>>>>> manual> 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Jim w 
> >>>>>>>>>> "Andy Guthrie" <[email protected]> wrote in message 
> >>>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]... 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, here's an update. 
> >>>>>>>>>>> I can only assume that I was mistaken about seeing side A work at the 
> >>>>>>>>>>> previous owners house. I pulled the front off and found that the contact 
> >>>>>>>>>>> for the A side of the record (where it scans the magnetic o-rings) is 
> >>>>>>>>>>> bent. I am going to try to remove the strip of magnetic o-rings (gee, 
> >>>>>>>>>>> can you tell I'm a newbie with these terms?) and straighten out the 
> >>>>>>>>>>> sensor. I sure hope this works... 
> >>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>> Andy Guthrie wrote: 
> >>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone- my first post. 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have officially started my jukebox "collection" by buying a Seeburg 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> STD4 "Mardi Gras" model. 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Things seem to be ok, except I cannot play side "A" of the records. All 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> of the side B's (the 2xx selections) work fine. 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I followed Tony Miller's troubleshooting guide, and connected the 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> negative side of a D battery to the tormat lead, and the machine did 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pick up each disc, but again, only played the B sides. The A sides were 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> working when I checked out the machine prior to buying it, so I get the 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> feeling that a wire may have fallen loose during the move. 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> When I punch in a 1xx selection, the mechanism scans twice and then 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> parks. 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas what might cause the skipping of the 1xx selections? 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Hi, Andy! I realize that I am replying to an ancient post, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to try. I have the same issue with the exact same jukebox. You mentioned that you straightened out the contact for side A selections because it was slightly bent. Could you please explain where this contact is located? I'm not sure where to look! Thanks, so much! 
> >>>>>>> Check connections in all the plugs related to the keyboard and Tormat 
> >>>>>>> (move outward if those are all good). You may find a damaged Molex pin, 
> >>>>>>> or a pin that is pushed back relative to the others so it is no longer 
> >>>>>>> making contact. 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> This is not uncommon... 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> John :-#)# 
> >>>>>>> -- 
> >>>>>> John, thanks for the advice! Please forgive my ignorance, but do I need to remove the mechanism in order to check the connections in all the plugs related to the keyboard and Tormat and look for damaged Molex pins? When I got the jukebox, it was not working. Lights came on, but the mechanism was stuck all the way to the right (when looking from the back). After researching a LOT, I felt confident enough to remove the mechanism, which I did. I oiled the motor, and manually turned the coupling until a full cycle was complete. It seemed to have been stuck in the play position. I sprayed the contacts (only the few that I saw....I'm sure I missed some) with contact cleaner. I replaced everything, and it started scanning! I did the battery test, and it picked up every #2 side, but none of the #1 sides. 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Sorry for rambling, but I just wanted to explain what I had done. So, back to my original question...do I need to remove the mechanism again in order to check for damaged connections or pins? Stupid question #2: is the tarmat part of the whole mechanism that comes out? Where, exactly, is it? Thanks for tolerating my ignorance! 
> >>>>> No, you shouldn't have to remove the mechanism to check the connections. 
> >>>>> I'm thinking checking at the control center first. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> As for not playing one side, do check the manual and make sure you have 
> >>>>> set up the Tormat Readout contacts correctly. And the the Tormat is 
> >>>>> aligned correctly, and that the Reversing Switch on the mechanism is 
> >>>>> operating correctly - that the circuit to the readout switches - if 
> >>>>> present - is exchanged correctly. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I hope you have the manual! It should go into detail on troubleshooting 
> >>>>> and adjustments. 
> >>>>> John :-#)# 
> >>>> Thank you, John. I have the manual, and have printed out several adjustment pages. Hopefully, I'll be able to make some progress! 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Well, I was able to play all records on side B with keypad selection. I sprayed the contact strip on the tarmac with contact cleaner. I still cannot make a side B selection. The juke box just scans and scans, and then stops. If I trip the return lever in the back, it will pick up a random record and play side A with no trouble. It still will not allow me to play side A through the keypad. I'm thinking that maybe I need to remove the mechanism again, and make sure that the reverse lever is moving freely. Still not sure where to check for damaged pins.... 
> >> Your machine is NOT an STD4 and sounds like one of the early fifties 
> >> machines when you said you flipped a pin and were able to hear side "A".
> ...(oops read that wrong)
> > 
> > The tag on the back says STD4. I believe it is known as the Mardi Gras edition. I have a picture of the tag, and a picture of the reverse lever, as well, but it won't let me attach a photo here.
> Hi, sorry, misread your previous post. What you referred to as the lever 
> on the back is the Cancel Solenoid lever, and yes, it will play a record 
> the side of which is determined by the direction the mechanism is going. 
> Ignore my bit about an early 50s machine! 
> 
> Back to not playing the "A" side of the records. Have you done the 
> Battery Test? If the machine then plays both side (depending on the 
> direction of travel) then the Tormat and Readout circuits are fine and 
> the problem is with the Write-In circuits. 
> 
> If it still only plays the "B" sides then it is most likely the "B" side 
> wiper or the reversing switch on the lower front of the mechanism (front 
> side is where the tone arm is) and that switch may have a problem. 
> Mostly likely it is the Tormat Readout assembly, it should toggle 
> cleanly from side to side, with one wiper making contact with the 
> underside of the Tormat going in one direction, then when the direction 
> reverses the other wiper arm is moved to contact the other row of Tormat 
> contacts. 
> 
> The manual shows the adjustment of the Side 1/Side 2 readouts see page 
> 33 of manual 81-254157 "Select-O-Matic Mechanism Operation & Adjustments 
> Manual"
> John :-#)# 
> -- 
> (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) 
> John's Jukes Ltd. 
> #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 
> (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) 
> www.flippers.com 
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
I did the battery test, and it played every side B, and none of side A.  I'll check the B side wiper and reversing switch. I'll also check the tarmac readout assembly.  The jukebox is at my camp, and I won't be going out there for a couple of weeks.  That will give me time to look up the pages you referred to in the manual.  Thanks, again, for the help!