Re: flashing usb sticks?

On 3/22/22 02:37, VanguardLH wrote:
> bad sector wrote:
> 
>> VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>> bad sector wrote:
>>>
>>>> The entire USB interface whorehouse is already nothing but a huge
>>>> scam. It shudda been put out of its misery years ago
>>>
>>> What is your proposal for a replacement?  What would be your new design?
>>> Of other existing connector types, what do you suggest?  
>>
>> eSata with extra deep connector socket plus an at least one inch deep
>> device body socket to grasp the plug end of a external mobile device
> 
> That would go backward in bandwidth.  SATA-3 has 6Gbps max bandwidth
> (theoretical, not actual).  USB-3.0 goes to 5 Gbps, USB-3.1 goes to
> 10Gbps and UASP, USB-3.2 to 10-20 Gbps, Thunderbolt to 40 Gbps, and
> USB-4 (based on Thunderbolt) is 40 Gbps.  Sometimes you find builds that
> have internal HDDs with a USB3 port instead of SATA.  Users will
> dismantle an old build thinking to repurpose the old HDDs in a new
> build, but find the HDDs have USB ports.  SATA-3 performs still faster
> than USB-3.0, but that's because SATA-3 is 6 Gpbs versus USB3.0 at 5
> Gbps.  But USB is evolving to higher bandwidths, like for USB 4.3 Gen
> 2x2, than SATA can support.  
> 
> eSATA connectors supply no power.  Your external eSATA device has to get
> power from a walwart.  For an eSATA device, you have the cable from
> computer to eSATA device, and a power adapter to the eSATA device.  USB,
> firewire, and thunderbolt suppy power.  Yeah, a modified eSATA connector
> could get designed that includes power lines, like the combo SATA+PWR
> connectors used for internal drives, or maybe your desktop PC has an
> eSATAp (powered eSATA) port which means your external device needs one,
> too, but you're still stuck with the lower bandwidth of eSATA compared
> to USB-4 or Thunderbolt.  If you have an eSATA connector on the
> backpanel of your desktop PC, is it double wide to include the power
> connector (looks like the extra wide internal SATA+pwr connector), or
> look like an eSATAp port?
> 
> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5R3IpwMl1Ts/maxresdefault.jpg
> 
> No idea if eSATAp will take off.  I haven't found mobos with them.  With
> users migrating to SSDs for storage, and getting mobos with m.2 NVMe
> slots to use with NVMe SSDs which are using PCI for direct to CPU
> transfer, SATA is dying out.  NVMe in onboard, so no connecting external
> SSD NVMe drives.  For external SSDs, or even internal non-NVMe SSDs,
> you're stuck with [e]SATA which went stagnant.  There is no SATA-4 in
> the works.  There are no plans to extend SATA bandwidth beyond 6 Gbps.
> There is SATA-3.2 Express, but that relies on the PCIe bus for achieving
> more than the 6 Gbps transfer speed.  SATA-3 Express failed.  m.2 and
> NVMe (using PCIe) surpassed it.
> 
>>> Thunderbolt? Thunderbolt started 11 years ago.  USB started 26 years
>>> ago. Thunderbolt required paying a royalty to Intel until recently.> 
>>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/intel-to-make-thunderbolt-3-royalty-free-in-bid-to-spur-adoption/
>>
>> another exercise in life-brevity i.e. planned obsolescence
> 
> Huh?  Removing the royalty means MORE hardware designers will adopt
> Thunderbolt whether exhibited as plain Thunderbolt, or implemented in
> USB-4.
> 
> SATA is stagnant (dead).  SATAe failed.  Few computers have an eSATAp
> port (I haven't found any, but there may be some).  NVMe is already
> available, but only for internal drives since it involve PCIe.
> Thunderbolt (innate, or integrated into USB-4) will kill any eSATA[p] or
> SATA interface.
> 
> Just what is your design that obviates obsolescence?  ALL computer
> hardware eventually becomes obsolete.  So do the features in smart TVs,
> operating systems, and anything connected to computers.  Else,
> technology would stagnate, and you'd still be using an 5 MB MFM drive
> with a specialty controller card.
> 
>>> Did you buy a computer with a Thunderbolt interface?  Why not?
>>> Thunderbolt 3 will mutate into the USB 4 form factor.
>>
>> couldn't care less
> 
> So, you really aren't interest in a better hardware storage interface.
> What were you trying to convey by saying "The entire USB interface
> whorehouse is already nothing but a huge scam. It shudda been put out of
> its misery years ago"?  What's the "scam"?  What is so miserable about
> USB?
> 
>> Now my turn. Why haven't I bought two or three other new laptops
>> since my Asus G73 and why am I not likely to buy another at all for 
>> some (read a loooooong) time to come?
> 
> Because your current but 12-year old hardware meets your current needs
> despite the hardware is obsolescent.  That's not an excuse to condemn
> newer hardware that exceeds what you have.
> 
> I have an equally old Acer laptop that is still usable.  Not better, not
> faster, nor in any way excels my latest desktop PC build, or even a
> younger netbook, but it still works.  When my prior desktop build got
> zapped by lightning (it bypassed the UPS - high voltage goes where it
> wants), I was without a computer.  I hooked a monitor, keyboard, and
> mouse to the old laptop, and used that while ordering parts and doing
> the new build.  The experience was frustrating and slow, but it worked.
> Its battery was dead, but it worked on A/C power.  Would I use it now
> that I have a fresh new build?  No way!  I used it because it was all I
> had at the time.
> 
> Some consumers buy stuff because it's new or different.  Some consumers
> research before buying to determine if they're getting bang for the
> buck.  If your criteria doesn't mandate spending on new hardware, OS,
> and apps, or faster, or more storage, or whatever then stick with what
> works.  My primary car is a 2002.  Still works.  None of all the
> gimmicks in the 2018, but those aren't needed for the basic use of a
> car.  It rattles, has rust, so-so MPH, no passenger air bag, no head
> unit to pair to my smartphone (which is 3 years old, and was introduced
> 6 years ago, is unsupported so no OS updates), and other features many
> consumers think are needed.  As a commuter car, it still works.  Didn't
> stop me from getting a newer car with lots more gimmicks, but I put the
> most wear on the old car (which is now a classic being over 20 years
> old).
> 
> Obviously you're not getting newer storage interfaces on your old
> computer, but that doesn't obviate newer and faster is available, is not
> yet obsolescent since it is still evolving rather than stagnant, like
> SATA, and are [soon] available if you really do want to get away from
> the "entire USB interface whorehouse".
> 
>> designed like myself for a million insertions with little risk of
>> tiring 
> 
> Can be done.  Get the user out the equation, and the abuse disappears.
> USB-C is rated for 10,000 insertions.  That's a rating based on the
> connector format.  Some USB-C connectors are rated to 20K insertions, or
> more.  Depends on how much you're willing to spend on quality.  Military
> grade USB connectors that are waterproof, have a ratching ring for
> secure connects and strain relief, and high insertion count are unlikely
> to find their way into the consumer-grade computer parts market where
> you buy computer parts, or buy pre-built computers using consumer-grade
> parts.
> 
> If insertion rating will never be high enough to warrant your
> acceptance, get shorty USB cables to leave plugged into your computers.
> Wear on the computer's USB ports (the ones hardest to replace) will be
> minimalized since only the other end will plug ito the device's USB
> cable.  The shorty USB cable can be easily replaced after 10 years it
> takes to come close to the insertion rating count.  Oh, those insertion
> ratings are a minimum, so you get at least that many barring user abuse
> which is obviously to most likely cause for failure.  No matter how
> protected or robust a connector, it can be damaged by users.


I call it a scam because on both my laptop and my desktop of a total of
maybe a dozen usb ports 8 are so loose that they cannot be used. My
concern doesn't deal with transfer rates as such. With respect to those 
I learned a long time ago to totally ignore advertised or standards rates. 
Anyone who wants to sell usb-x will have to SHOW me the SUSTAINED 
MINIMUM rate. Right now on my machines the usb's I have are worth 
about 20% of the sata rates, the physical charateristics remaining total 
crap.