Re: partitioning and use thereof

Paul wrote:
> On 10/10/2021 12:38 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
>> On 10/10/21 2:36 AM, Robert Baer wrote:
>>> ..seems to want to work with format N: but slow as all heck.
>>
>> Did you let the slow format finish?  Or did you stop it?
>>
>>>    So tried format N: /q and got the following messages:
>>> Creating file system structures.
>>> The first NTFS boot sector is unreadabe.
>>> All NTFS boot sectors are unwriteable. Cannot continue.
>>> Format failed.
>>
>> If you stopped the slow / long format, that error would be 
>> unsurprising to me.
>>
>>>    So, maybe the SLOW way or NO WAY.
>>
>> My understanding is that the quick / short format will only run if 
>> there is an existing file system (maybe of the same type).  Something 
>> that doesn't exist if you stopped the slow / long format before it 
>> finished.
>>
> 
> No.
> 
> Short format = write new $MFT, done
> 
> Long Format  = write new $MFT, then read verify the entire NTFS, if any
>                 blocks return CRC error, mark off bad clusters using $BAD
>                 sparse metadata method.
> 
> The long format is mostly a read operation.
> 
> The short format does everything technically
> needed on good media. You should not really
> be resorting to "living with bad media" by
> using the $BAD method. It's a false economy.
> 
> If your media is that bad, when auto-reallocation
> hardware support cannot fix a CRC error, then that
> disk is in trouble, and on its way out.
> 
> While it is possible to have high-fly errors on
> a disk drive, and marking off the CRC errored sectors
> is perfectly good, this sort of error type is uncommon.
> I've only seen it once here, and just after
> committing a cardinal sin of turning an old
> drive upside down. That's not a good idea, but
> because the drive was freezing right-side-up,
> I had no choice but to try it.
> 
> *******
> 
> Back in 1985 or so, when the very first $1000+ HDD
> came in (5MB and 10MB drives), if you interrupted the
> format of those, they would brick on you. That's because
> back then, "format" meant "low-level format" on soft
> sectored drives. The magnetic format written, redefined
> everything. It was truly, a nuke and pave time. There
> was an index mark in hardware, to signal when to write
> your soft sectors.
> 
> Modern drives, the servo wedges are "permanent". You're
> not allowed to "pave" any more. You can only fill potholes
> (read sector and write sector interface).
> 
> Formatting does not format, not any more. It
> does not do low-level format.
> 
> Windows format, like anyones format, only has the
> ability to read and write sectors. It's not really
> formatting as we knew it.
> 
> You don't need a file system to exist, to write over it.
> 
> The partition can be raw. The first sector of the
> partition can be all zeros (the file system type
> declaration), and "format" can still write it.
> 
> If we could not do that, we could not bootstrap formatting
> on brand new year 2021 disk drives from the factory.
> 
> I can do a Secure Erase on a modern drive, and partition
> and format it, with no reliance on any special things
> pre-existing on the disk. Since the servo wedges are permanent,
> the disk is always able to orient itself and follow LBA
> addressing. Everything is there and everything is locatable
> by address. Even Secure Erase, only writes over the payload
> section of each sector.
> 
>     Paul
   Well, i let the slow, long-winded "normal" format run. Over an hour 
or so later, i got responses:
The new file system is NTFS.
WARNING, ALL DATA ON NON-REMOVEABLE DISK DRIVE N: WILL BE LOST!
Proceed with format(Y/N)?   y
Formatting 238470M
488386560 bad sectors were encountered during the format - thesse 
sectors cannot be guaranteed to have been cleaned/.
Volume label (32 characters, ENTER for none)?  NewN
Creating file system structures.
All NTFS boot sectors are unwriteable. Cannot continue.
Format failed.

   Wonderful!  DOA.
   Seems impossible to format that second partition.

   So i deleted all that bushwah and started with the HD as one 
partition, simple volume, "quick" format .. all of which takes quite a 
while.
   That works.
   So.. what the heck..Use Properties and run error checking, scan for 
and attempt recovery of bad sectors.

   331007 free clusters processed.
   Number seems slow to change, and the "progress" bar is maybe one 
tenth across (15 minutes so far).
..looks liker it will take hours, so signing off till done.
   Will report results.




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