https://httpd.apache.org/contributors/ outdated: Abort, Retry, Fail? (was: Ancient Contributors page)

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From: Philippe Cloutier <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Subject: https://httpd.apache.org/contributors/ outdated: Abort, Retry, Fail?
 (was: Ancient Contributors page)
References: <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>

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    <p>Greetings Rich,</p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/10/2026 4:11 PM, Rich Bowen wrote=
:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">Since the late 1900s, we hav=
e had this page - <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://http=
d.apache.org/contributors/">https://httpd.apache.org/contributors/</a> - =
that listed contributors to the project. It was brought to my attention t=
oday that most of the links on that page were dead and/or pointed to site=
s no longer actually owned by the person referenced. It also contained do=
zens of email addresses for people who are now assuredly in every spam da=
tabase ever.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>I strongly believe that contact information should be kept,
      assuming developers consented to the publication. Personally
      speaking, <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:chea=
[email protected]">[email protected]</a> must have been in 100.0% of spam
      databases for decades, and thanks to Gmail (which is MUCH better
      than my previous provider), spam has cost me less than 200 =E2=82=AC=
/year.
      I consider accountability paramount, and would much rather have
      people who find a regression I introduced notify me than try
      fixing it themselves (often=C2=A0misguessing the solution, as one o=
f my
      best and closest colleagues=C2=A0apparently=C2=A0did yesterday).</p=
>
    <p>Allowing developers to communicate with each other is fundamental
      for collaboration, and one of my priorities.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">I=E2=80=99ve done some clean=
up.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Thanks again<br>
      Small regression: Astrid Malo=E2=80=99s name now reads =E2=80=9CAst=
rid Malo
      {#kess} (a.k.a. Kess)=E2=80=9D</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">[=E2=80=A6]

It=E2=80=99s an interesting historical artifact, but it=E2=80=99s far fro=
m complete, and many of the remaining entries list long-past employers. N=
ot harmful, per se, but also not terribly valuable for anything other tha=
n being a historical artifact.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>I think that page does cause some harm.<br>
      If half of those listed as current contributors do not contribute
      anymore, that makes the website misleading about the project=E2=80=99=
s
      health. Conversely, having a large share of broken links may give
      the impression that httpd is abandoned.<br>
      Listing people who resigned as current can also make them
      uncomfortable. And listing dead people can make their
      acquaintances uncomfortable. Listing outdated organizations can
      also be misleading.</p>
    <p>On the other hand, I see it as way more than a historical
      artifact:</p>
    <ol>
      <li>It helps potential users evaluate the trust they can have in
        the product(s).</li>
      <li>It credits volunteer contributors, which=E2=80=95as
        <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://community.apac=
he.org/committers/#development-processes">https://community.apache.org/co=
mmitters/#development-processes</a>
        rightly explains=E2=80=95=E2=80=9Cis a critical part of community=
 building=E2=80=9D. Our
        struggle to recruit/retain is likely related to our struggle to
        follow that guidance crediting each contribution, making it
        critical to minimally keep crediting all (theoretically)
        contributors. The limited monetary rewards many of us get make
        =E2=80=9Csocial-psychological rewards=E2=80=9D even more critical=
=2E</li>
      <li>It *somewhat* credits organizational contributors.</li>
      <li>It helps determining which contributors are best to deal with
        a given issue, and how to contact them. This is relevant for
        collaboration between volunteers, but also to increase potential
        monetary rewards.</li>
      <li>It helps estimating how reliable a given
        contributor/contribution is.</li>
      <li>It helps assessing the impacts of a departure, and find weak
        areas.</li>
      <li>It can do more=E2=80=95for example, listing a contributor as a =
=E2=80=9Cgeneral
        trouble maker=E2=80=9D can be useful for thin skins.</li>
    </ol>
    <br>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">What do folks think about ke=
eping this, going forward?</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Obviously, this should not stay as it is, but simple removal
      would be a big loss. A minimum would be to mark it as outdated.</p>=

    <p>A good solution would be:</p>
    <ol>
      <li>To move the content to a reasonably open=C2=A0page, like in som=
e
        wiki</li>
      <li>To date information, so that the content gets maintainable.
        For example, we could say that=C2=A0Madhusudan Mathihalli was wor=
king
        for HP as of 2012-12-12, living in Cupertino on 1999-01-23, and
        assessed as a current contributor on 2026-01-01.</li>
    </ol>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>But ideally, the safe way to minimize aberrations (like httpd
      still listing N=C3=B3ir=C3=ADn Plunkett as a contributor, despite t=
he ASF=E2=80=99s
      publication of a memorial a decade ago, as tracked in ASF Bugzilla
      #70108) would be to centralize contributor data. The Apache Phone
      Book could serve as a basis for that, but is not currently
      designed for crediting purposes. It would need to include all
      contributors, and support indicating each one=E2=80=99s role in a g=
iven
      project.</p>
    The ASF Community Mailing List could be consulted, but I did not see
    effort in that direction so far, except perhaps a slow proposal for
    recognizing =E2=80=9Cnon-technical=E2=80=9D contributors:
    <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://lists.apache.org/t=
hread/78m6ysjf0rl0kfblz707s9x2jstcrs0k">https://lists.apache.org/thread/7=
8m6ysjf0rl0kfblz707s9x2jstcrs0k</a><br>
    Another thread showing that recognition is not only challenging for
    httpd:
    <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://lists.apache.org/t=
hread/227bt76wxm9hc4fbv7f63z088j5h0p2q">https://lists.apache.org/thread/2=
27bt76wxm9hc4fbv7f63z088j5h0p2q</a>
    <pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
=F0=9F=85=AD=F0=9F=84=8D: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http=
s://www.philippecloutier.com/Common+infrastructure+licensing#list">https:=
//www.philippecloutier.com/Common+infrastructure+licensing#list</a>

Philippe Cloutier</pre>
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Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc"

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