Re: Ancient Contributors page

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From: Philippe Cloutier <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Ancient Contributors page
References: <[email protected]>
 <[email protected]>
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>

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    <p>Greetings Roy, and thank you for your enduring contribution,</p>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/12/2026 3:23 PM, Roy T. Fielding
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">On Jun 10, 2026, at 1:11=E2=80=
=AFPM, Rich Bowen <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:rbowe=
[email protected]">&lt;[email protected]&gt;</a> wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type=3D"cite">
        <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">
Since the late 1900s, we have had this page - <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-fr=
eetext" href=3D"https://httpd.apache.org/contributors/">https://httpd.apa=
che.org/contributors/</a> - that listed contributors to the project. It w=
as brought to my attention today that most of the links on that page were=
 dead and/or pointed to sites no longer actually owned by the person refe=
renced. It also contained dozens of email addresses for people who are no=
w assuredly in every spam database ever.

I=E2=80=99ve done some cleanup.

If you are an httpd committer, you can edit (or add, or remove) your reco=
rd on that page.

It=E2=80=99s an interesting historical artifact, but it=E2=80=99s far fro=
m complete, and many of the remaining entries list long-past employers. N=
ot harmful, per se, but also not terribly valuable for anything other tha=
n being a historical artifact.

What do folks think about keeping this, going forward?

</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">
I think we do a poor job of documenting contributions. This page was an e=
xercise in
self-documentation, which failed miserably. Using a link to the github co=
mmits would
be even worse (#commits !=3D #contributions, especially in a code base th=
at predates cvs).</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>I consider it ideal to document contributions, not just
      contributors. So I think linking to commits is helpful. Obviously,
      such a link should not *replace* current contents though.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">The ABOUT_APACHE file was th=
e original project compromise on attribution, but that became
a historical artifact as soon as I wrote it.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>I see several topics in ABOUT_APACHE:</p>
    <ol>
      <li>the (target) product (just a=C2=A0short description)</li>
      <li>the project</li>
      <li>contributors (credits)</li>
      <ol>
        <li>the PMC</li>
      </ol>
      <li>history</li>
    </ol>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">The intent was to update it =
over time
to reflect the current group of maintainers above the history portion. In=
stead, the historical
artifact remained fixed and the newer (at the time) bits relegated to thi=
s old CGI-generated page.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Ah. But even in 2000, the list was introduced with:</p>
    <p>
      <blockquote type=3D"cite">By the end of February, eight core
        contributors formed the foundation of the original Apache Group:<=
/blockquote>
      =E2=80=A6which sounds like it was meant to stay at that? Or do I
      misunderstand the part you are referring to?
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://github.com/apache/http=
d/commit/9409605c72f883672f3e22c3dfd63167a5ffe716#diff-a1269d16460663446d=
15369cd3760c83880fbc8ccec434d56d334a7f9f36e617R30-R35">https://github.com=
/apache/httpd/commit/9409605c72f883672f3e22c3dfd63167a5ffe716#diff-a1269d=
16460663446d15369cd3760c83880fbc8ccec434d56d334a7f9f36e617R30-R35</a></p>=

    <p>From what I can see:</p>
    <ol>
      <li>is treated in the homepage, README, ABOUT_APACHE and=C2=A0ABOUT=
_APACHE.html</li>
      <li>is treated in=C2=A0ABOUT_APACHE, ABOUT_APACHE.html and other pa=
ges</li>
      <li>are treated/given in=C2=A0ABOUT_APACHE, ABOUT_APACHE.html and
        contributors/</li>
      <ol>
        <li>is only treated in=C2=A0ABOUT_APACHE</li>
      </ol>
      <li>is treated=C2=A0in=C2=A0ABOUT_APACHE (badly outdated), ABOUT_AP=
ACHE.html
        (accurate but now highly incomplete).</li>
    </ol>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">I would prefer to document t=
he major contributors in a CREDITS file in source, remove the database,
and link to the ABOUT_APACHE history on the website.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>I do not know which database you are referring to, but I would
      agree that shipping all of the above in some ABOUT_APACHE file
      seems like a historical artifact of pre-WWW times. The little
      content which is not already duplicated (perhaps just #3.1)
      would=E2=80=95indeed, if that is what you are suggesting=E2=80=95be=
tter be treated
      somewhere more focused. The PMC varies and would better be treated
      on the website.</p>
    <p>As for contributors, there are pros and cons to each, but=C2=A0dis=
tributing
      a list sounds good legally. You would indeed expect that in an
      AUTHORS, CREDITS or copyright file.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">But I don't know if it's pos=
sible to do that without offending someone.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>I don't understand what your concern is (what could offend and
      why).</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite"
      cite=3D"mid:[email protected]">
      <pre wrap=3D"" class=3D"moz-quote-pre">[=E2=80=A6]

=2E...Roy

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
=F0=9F=85=AD=F0=9F=84=8D: <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http=
s://www.philippecloutier.com/Common+infrastructure+licensing#list">https:=
//www.philippecloutier.com/Common+infrastructure+licensing#list</a>

Philippe Cloutier</pre>
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Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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