Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@
Dominik Psenner <[email protected]> Fri, 10 Mar 2017 11:23:02 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.apache.logging |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <60ae0fb4-16d7-d59a-519e-0664a9cac77f__12405.0228078433$1489141404$gmane$org@gmail.com> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BF8B34A5755375A2A269CA1A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We had once the discussion that we wanted all Apache Logging projects to become very similar in their usage, starting with the same or a very similar configuration. Given that we should aim towards one Apache Logging specification and several Apache Logging specification implementations in the form of Apache Logging subprojects. That means all the devs for all subprojects have to talk more. To me this is a good reasons to merge the dev mailing lists. Further I don't see why the same use case should not apply to the user mailing lists, too. Those mailing lists see very low traffic but all of them need a larger audience. Just quoting the last few messages of two user mailing lists I follow: log4j-user: the last topic came in a week ago, the topic before that about two weeks ago log4net-user: the last topic came in 24 hours ago and the topic before that a month ago Cheers On 2017-03-09 19:24, Ralph Goers wrote: > We use general as mainly an announcement list for topics that might be > of general interest to all logging projects. Generally, these are just > release announcements. > > Ralph > >> On Mar 9, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Yeah, I agree that the user lists can remain separate as it doesn't >> cause any issues currently. The main idea here is whether we should >> merge the dev lists into one, or if we need a common dev list for all >> devs to subscribe to (general@ doesn't sound appropriate, but I don't >> know what that list is for). >> >> On 9 March 2017 at 10:26, Ralph Goers <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> You should note that while we consider all votes only PMC votes >> are “binding”. I don’t think that changes much however. >> >> From a PMC perspective I have to say that keeping the user’s >> lists separate isn’t likely to be an issue as most of the things >> that would need to be discussed would be on a dev list anyway. >> >> Ralph >> >>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:45 AM, Dominik Psenner <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> The votes are way too scattered over the different mailing lists >>> so that I didn't even find my own vote. ;-) Therefore I'm trying >>> to summarize the current state of the vote: >>> >>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ ->[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> Matt Sicker: +1 >>> Ralph Goers: +1 >>> Stefan Bodewig: +1 >>> Sven Rautenverg: -1 >>> Thorsten Schöning: -0 >>> Ivan Habunek: -0 >>> Dominik Psenner: +1 >>> Remko Popma: +1 >>> Mikael Ståldal: +0 >>> >>> Totals so far: >>> +1: 5 >>> +0: 1 >>> -0: 2 >>> -1: 1 >>> >>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ ->[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >>> Matt Sicker: -1 >>> Ralph Goers: +1 >>> Stefan Bodewig: -1 >>> Sven Rautenverg: -1 >>> Thorsten Schöning: -0 >>> Ivan Habunek: -0 >>> Dominik Psenner: +1 >>> Remko Popma: +1 >>> Mikael Ståldal: -1 >>> >>> Totals so far: >>> +1: 3 >>> +0: 0 >>> -0: 2 >>> -1: 4 >>> Sorry to anyone who's vote is missing. >>> >>> On 2017-03-08 05:20, Matt Sicker wrote: >>>> I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just >>>> subscribed to half of them less than five minutes ago. >>>> >>>> This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services >>>> mailing lists. The proposal is to combine them as follows: >>>> >>>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, >>>> general@ -> [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> commits@ and private@ remain the same as before. >>>> >>>> The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become >>>> aliases for the combined email names so as not to lose any >>>> future emails. To distinguish between projects, a subject tag >>>> can be added such as: >>>> >>>> [java] >>>> [net] >>>> [cxx] >>>> [php] >>>> >>>> Though I wouldn't think such a tag is required, though it >>>> should help in gaining the attention of the appropriate audience. >>>> >>>> Voting: >>>> >>>> +1: Yes, combine the mailing lists! >>>> +0: Go ahead, don't care that much. >>>> -0: Don't like it, but not vetoing it. >>>> -1: No, don't do that! I have a better idea! >>>> >>>> This vote follows the same "lazy consensus" (at least 3 +1 >>>> binding, no -1/vetoes) we use for general releases and whatnot. >>>> The vote will be open for at least 72 hours. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Matt Sicker <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Sicker <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > --------------BF8B34A5755375A2A269CA1A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <p>We had once the discussion that we wanted all Apache Logging projects to become very similar in their usage, starting with the same or a very similar configuration. Given that we should aim towards one Apache Logging specification and several Apache Logging specification implementations in the form of Apache Logging subprojects. That means all the devs for all subprojects have to talk more. To me this is a good reasons to merge the dev mailing lists. Further I don't see why the same use case should not apply to the user mailing lists, too. Those mailing lists see very low traffic but all of them need a larger audience. Just quoting the last few messages of two user mailing lists I follow:<br> </p> <p>log4j-user: the last topic came in a week ago, the topic before that about two weeks ago<br> log4net-user: the last topic came in 24 hours ago and the topic before that a month ago<br> </p> <p>Cheers<br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-03-09 19:24, Ralph Goers wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote cite="mid:[email protected]" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <div class="">We use general as mainly an announcement list for topics that might be of general interest to all logging projects. Generally, these are just release announcements.</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">Ralph</div> <br class=""> <div> <blockquote type="cite" class=""> <div class="">On Mar 9, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" class="">[email protected]</a>> wrote:</div> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <div class=""> <div dir="ltr" class="">Yeah, I agree that the user lists can remain separate as it doesn't cause any issues currently. The main idea here is whether we should merge the dev lists into one, or if we need a common dev list for all devs to subscribe to (general@ doesn't sound appropriate, but I don't know what that list is for).</div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""> <div class="gmail_quote">On 9 March 2017 at 10:26, Ralph Goers <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" class="">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""> <div class="">You should note that while we consider all votes only PMC votes are “binding”. I don’t think that changes much however.</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">From a PMC perspective I have to say that keeping the user’s lists separate isn’t likely to be an issue as most of the things that would need to be discussed would be on a dev list anyway.</div> <span class="HOEnZb"><font class="" color="#888888"> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">Ralph</div> </font></span> <div class=""> <div class="h5"><br class=""> <div class=""> <blockquote type="cite" class=""> <div class="">On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:45 AM, Dominik Psenner <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" class="">[email protected]</a>> wrote:</div> <br class="m_-3547174407184483746Apple-interchange-newline"> <div class=""> <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> <p class="">The votes are way too scattered over the different mailing lists so that I didn't even find my own vote. ;-) Therefore I'm trying to summarize the current state of the vote:</p> <pre class="">log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3547174407184483746moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a></pre> <p class="">Matt Sicker: +1<br class=""> Ralph Goers: +1<br class=""> Stefan Bodewig: +1<br class=""> Sven Rautenverg: -1<br class=""> Thorsten Schöning: -0<br class=""> Ivan Habunek: -0<br class=""> Dominik Psenner: +1<br class=""> Remko Popma: +1<br class=""> Mikael Ståldal: +0</p> <p class="">Totals so far:<br class=""> +1: 5<br class=""> +0: 1<br class=""> -0: 2<br class=""> -1: 1</p> <pre class="">log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ -> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3547174407184483746moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a> Matt Sicker: -1 Ralph Goers: +1 Stefan Bodewig: -1 Sven Rautenverg: -1 Thorsten Schöning: -0 Ivan Habunek: -0 Dominik Psenner: +1 Remko Popma: +1 Mikael Ståldal: -1 Totals so far: +1: 3 +0: 0 -0: 2 -1: 4 </pre> Sorry to anyone who's vote is missing.<br class=""> <br class=""> <div class="m_-3547174407184483746moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-03-08 05:20, Matt Sicker wrote:<br class=""> </div> <blockquote type="cite" class=""> <div dir="ltr" class="">I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to half of them less than five minutes ago. <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services mailing lists. The proposal is to combine them as follows:</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" class="">[email protected]</a></div> <div class="">log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ -> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" class="">[email protected]</a></div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">commits@ and private@ remain the same as before.</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become aliases for the combined email names so as not to lose any future emails. To distinguish between projects, a subject tag can be added such as:</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">[java]</div> <div class="">[net]</div> <div class="">[cxx]</div> <div class="">[php]</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">Though I wouldn't think such a tag is required, though it should help in gaining the attention of the appropriate audience.</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">Voting:</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">+1: Yes, combine the mailing lists!</div> <div class="">+0: Go ahead, don't care that much.</div> <div class="">-0: Don't like it, but not vetoing it.</div> <div class="">-1: No, don't do that! I have a better idea!</div> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> <div class="">This vote follows the same "lazy consensus" (at least 3 +1 binding, no -1/vetoes) we use for general releases and whatnot. The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.<br class="" clear="all"> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> -- <br class=""> <div class="m_-3547174407184483746gmail_signature">Matt Sicker <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" class="">[email protected]</a>></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br class=""> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br class=""> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br class=""> <br class="" clear="all"> <div class=""><br class=""> </div> -- <br class=""> <div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Matt Sicker <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank" class="">[email protected]</a>></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br class=""> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------BF8B34A5755375A2A269CA1A--