Re: [Csnd-dev] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Csnd-dev] S7 scheme and Csound 7

So were you imagining a plain portaudio C or C++ host then?

On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 7:30 AM vlz <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, with Csound bindings the control over processing is yours so you can
> do pretty much anything you’d like.
>
> > On 17 Oct 2024, at 15:25, Iain Duncan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Actually that would be a very nice addition wouldn't it? One thing I do
> in Max is send code directly to the interpreter from Vim over osc, which is
> a really nice way to work. (I know, it should be emacs... one day.. lol) I
> do this by having a script catch the vim buffer output and piping over
> STDOUT to osc, and that could just as easily be piped into a CLI repl host.
> >
> > The thing that makes it fun for me is the scheduler integration. What I
> do in Max is have a registry in C and in s7 for scheduled calls registered
> by Scheme gensym handles. The engine uses the Max clocks to fire those
> which get the gensym handle in C, and then call whatever Scheme function is
> registered in s7. This lets me run arbitrary Scheme closures at whatever
> time resolution I want and is a wonderfully easy way to make sequencers.
> I'm not sure how that should be done off Csound's clocking but I would
> imagine it would be simple.
> >
> > If anyone is interested in hacking on this with me, please let me know.
> >
> > iain
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 7:19 AM Victor Lazzarini <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> > It all makes sense. I think a good test would be to write a CLI repl for
> S7 with Csound bindings to start with.
> > Then this can be further embedded in other applications.
> > ========================
> > Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> > Maynooth University
> > Ireland
> >
> > > On 17 Oct 2024, at 14:51, Iain Duncan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I should have also mentioned that Grace & Common Music are no longer
> really under active development as Heinrich teaches with Python now
> (school's decision), so there is potential value in a Grace replacement
> with better Csound integration built on JUCE 8. For those who don't know,
> JUCE is double licensed, so it can be used under GPL free. This would
> likely be of interest in the wider audio world too as JUCE is still for
> sure the most used plugin framework, and the JUCE 8 license is much
> improved (quite a high revenue threshold now before even commercial users
> need to buy licenses).
> > >
> > > Also worth mentioning, I *just* started discussions with Roger
> Dannenberg about getting O2 (newer, more capable version of OSC) working in
> Max and that could be something that would be cool to add to the mix. I
> know very little about it yet except that what he can do with
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 6:43 AM Iain Duncan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > hi guys, I could definitely help on this. As I have my hand in many
> pies right now, I don't read this list all the time, so please feel free to
> directly add me to any emails to get my attention! [email protected]
> (I will see if I can set up an automated Bat-Light filter on my name or
> something too)
> > >
> > > The "normal" way to do this, as far as how s7 is designed, would be to
> put the bindings in the C or C++ host. One of the major points in s7's
> favour is that bindings are dead easy (MUCH easier than with Racket or ECL
> for example.) You can very easily manipulate the Scheme environment from C
> calls. So for live coding one would likely work in an s7 session that calls
> into Csound. This is roughly what I do in Scheme for Max. I have created
> code to allow s7 to manipulate various Max globals, including buffer, and
> one can schedule s7 functions of the Max clock (the killer feature for my
> priorities). I could see that being pretty cool.
> > >
> > > I was also thinking of possibly building such a thing for Max, in a
> combined Csound/s4m object so that s7 code could tap directly into csound
> space rather than having to go through Max space. I was separately also
> thinking of doing something like this in a JUCE host, which would give us a
> more modern and capable version of Heinrich Taube's "Grace" - Grace will
> output to Csound but as far as I know does not give one Csound API access.
> > >
> > > One could also host s7 *in* Csound I suppose, but I'm less clear how
> that would work or what one would gain. Do people still use Python *from*
> csound for example or is it mostly the other way around? s7 has no GIL, and
> the GC is fast, but it's not incremental tricolor GC the way Roger
> Dannenberg's Serpent is. (I would like to build such a thing for s7 but
> that is probably years out). You can turn it off or run it on a timer mind
> you. The main thing I wonder about is syntax - embedding in Max and PD
> works really well because going from Max/PD message format to Scheme is
> very simple - space separated tokens, nothing special in Scheme about
> commas, etc). I can essentially build and send tiny Scheme programs in Max.
> Maybe in modern Csound this is possible too?
> > >
> > > As for where, it would make sense to be in the Csound repo as it needs
> to be in a *separate host*. Bill S. likes to keep s7 very lean, but is very
> helpful when it comes to getting it working in other things.
> > >
> > > If there is one of these that someone wants to hack on, please let me
> know and I would help out. I would also be happy to do a group zoom and
> discuss!
> > >
> > > iain
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 1:40 AM vlz <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > I don't know actually. It's an unusual case, where the bindings are
> actually C code.
> > >
> > > Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> > > Maynooth University
> > > Ireland
> > >
> > >> On 26 Sep 2024, at 09:31, Michael Gogins <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Would it make more sense to have the FFI in the Csound 7 repository,
> or in the S7 Scheme distribution?
> > >>
> > >> -----------------------------------------------------
> > >> Michael Gogins
> > >> Irreducible Productions
> > >> http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
> > >> Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 9:40 AM Victor Lazzarini <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> > >> Looks like it's a core feature
> > >>
> > >> s7
> > >> ccrma.stanford.edu
> > >> <favicon.ico>
> > >>
> > >> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> > >> Maynooth University
> > >> Ireland
> > >>
> > >>> On 26 Sep 2024, at 08:17, Michael Gogins <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>  *Warning*
> > >>> This email originated from outside of Maynooth University's Mail
> System. Do not reply, click links or open attachments unless you recognise
> the sender and know the content is safe.
> > >>> This is an excellent idea. Does S7 Scheme have the ability to
> declare and call foreign functions?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2024, 23:02 Victor Lazzarini <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> > >>> Maybe Iain Duncan can comment on this.
> > >>>
> > >>> I’ve recently contributed bindings for SBCL and was interested in
> investigating bindings for Scheme. Looking around for a suitable version, I
> seemed to recall a mention of S7 scheme, but that wasn’t on the list of the
> “most popular” scheme implementations. Then I googled it and saw Iain’s
> name alongside so then I remembered he had added it to Max.
> > >>>
> > >>> So the idea of S7 seems to be that it’s just a Scheme interpreter
> you can add as an extension to your system. It comes as a single source
> file and a header.
> > >>> I thought maybe it would be straightforward to offer an S7 with
> built-in Csound 7 host API bindings. Then we could run Csound from S7
> scheme (as we can
> > >>> from SBCL etc). Maybe it would be a neat application for live
> coding. Perhaps that would allow easy Common Music integration since CM
> also runs from S7?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thoughts?
> > >>> ========================
> > >>> Prof. Victor Lazzarini
> > >>> Maynooth University
> > >>> Ireland
> > >>>
> >
>