Re: Re: a new "new music" music site

On Jun 8, 2004, at 9:43 PM, Gregory Taylor wrote:

> I'm sorry, but what I'm seeing here is a site full of "stuff that
> John Nowak thinks is cool."

I did propose having a group of people evaluate the tracks several 
times, although in all fairness, any website that screens material has 
to be controlled somehow.

>  I've got no particular reason to
> trust your aesthetic judgment, and this particular answer doesn't
> exactly help with that.

The only thing that would help you trust my judgment is seeing what 
ends up on the site. I understand that. I don't expect you to trust my 
judgment now. That's why I'm looking for ways to give it more 
credibility, by means of multiple judges, clear outlines for 
submissions, asking for opinions publicly, etc.

> A lot of people spent a whole lot of time
> and blood and sweat and tears trying to forge a different way to
> assemble and disseminate music that didn't mistake the novel for
> the new, and to imagine a world in which there would BE no
> "next/big/thing."

Right.

> A little more search time and a little more
> server space is a small price to pay for a mere changing of the
> guard - whether it's you or anybody and four friends. Or
> me, for that matter.

So basically, you are uncomfortable with anyone selecting works to be 
shown in one place. I understand why you're saying that. But that's 
what occurs with all labels, with museums, and with just about 
everything. Of course the internet is a bit different... but like I 
stated earlier, there are already many sites with allow everyone to 
contribute. This new site would compliment those in a way. It's not an 
either/or situation.

> Why not avoid the storage issue entirely and post links to
> work uploaded by the artists themselves? All you put up
> is link space. You provide the individual persons themselves
> the opportunity to be contacted and dealt with as persons
> rather than people who've run some gauntlet, and so on.

The purpose of the site is to let people download a bunch of music all 
in one place, without a bunch of browsing around. It is true that I 
could have people put all their text regarding method and message and 
whatnot on the site, and then link directly to the songs. However then 
you have to deal with links going down as people exceed their bandwidth 
limits, dead links, varying server speeds, etc. Not to mention a lot of 
artists don't have 120MB of online server space to stick up two albums 
and leave them there indefinitely. I know I don't (at the moment).

> Come to think of it, you could probably hack a cgi script or
> some variation thereof that would allow the artists themselves
> to list the works so that you don't have to do the work.

if I were to go that route, then automating the process would make 
sense, yes.

> Of course, this privileges no one's bias set; I appear to have
> a lot more faith in the part of people to decide for themselves
> what they value. Bias is impossible to avoid.

Bias is definitely impossible to avoid. No question there. However, it 
can be greatly minimized, and it is reduced to almost nothing with 
various people with different backgrounds are looking at the same 
thing.

I think you may be thinking I'd want to screen very harshly. That is 
not the case. As long as the artist can write up a decent bit about why 
their work is "original", and I can see some merit in it (or the group 
could, whatever), I would have no problem adding it. The screening 
process would be more for knocking off Squarepusher copy-cats, cliche 
dark ambient droning, etc etc. If a person truly believes in the work, 
and writes up something respectable about it, I wouldn't be turning 
them down. The screening is meant to allow the site to provide 
experimental sorts of music exclusively... not to provide only the very 
best experimental music. With experimental music, there is no way to 
find a generally accepted best anyway. I think you might have been 
worried that that was my goal. Personally, my music tends to be more 
"radically" experimental (for whatever that's worth), and I'd be 
looking for other artists interested a similar level of 
experimentation. The amount that I personally like the 
piece/album/artist doesn't matter so much.

> In situations where
> there is some considerable financial risk involved with pressed
> discs, etc. (cf http://www.fallt.com ?), it's right up front. Why
> go for that if it isn't necessary?

For the reasons I stated earlier. To give more credibility to the 
artists shown, and to provide a better experience to those who want to 
go to a site and download music. I've been many sites where the 
experimental section was 1/3rd drum and bass, 1/3rd drone/ambient, and 
1/3rd Merzbow copy-cats. Nothing against Merzbow of course. I love 
Merzbow. But basically, the screening would be to avoid that situation. 
Improve the signal to noise ratio... or perhaps in this case the noise 
to signal ratio. ;-)

> I don't doubt your earnestness,
> but I'm not sure I want you (or anyone, really) making my
> decisions for me.

I understand your viewpoint.

> I'm sure that you'd probably feel the same
> way, were the circumstances reversed (if you were forced to
> listen to what I program on my radio show, for example).

I don't know. Part of the fun of radio IMO is turning it on and hearing 
things you never would've looked for yourself. I regularly turn on WFMU 
(a public radio station I get around here), and listen to things I 
never would've listened to otherwise. Is someone choosing what I listen 
to? In a way, yes, but only in a way because its not like I can't 
listen to another station or toss in a CD. Do I enjoy myself usually? 
Absolutely.

> P.S. Are we only talking *American* "new" also?
> I have it on good authority that "lovely" is the new
> "edgy" in Japan these days....  :-)

Lovely -is- the new edgy in Japan I think as well. ;-) I was just 
listening to Noriko Tujiko, if that counts for anything (god help me if 
she's not Japanese).

But no, the site would allow entries from people of all countries.

- John

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