RE: Hardware to room play the collection

Ian wrote:
>> feel that human brain is so complex that we won't know all about it for a long time

I strongly agree- I don’t see any other viable conclusion at this time- there just wouldn’t be the scale and depth and quantity of huge unanswered questions about human cognition.

My big contention though, is that just because we can’t measure something doesn’t mean that its existence can’t be demonstrated, and this is where the snake-oil esoteric types fall on their swords every time. They _never_ provide or even pursue any level of validation for their claims. Bottom line: if something is there, you should be able to demonstrate it through statistical testing- if 60%-70% subjects agree, then you’ve got something. BUT that would conflict with the business model, I think- keeping it vague is what keeps the esoteric tribe buying a ‘narrative’ about science rather than any reality.


Gerry Pehl


From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 6:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EAC] Hardware to room play the collection



Fred -

You've clearly delved much further than I into this murky world.  The knobs are nice but, wow!

I kind of sit in the middle with regard to measurable versus immeasurable differences.  Basically I'm a scientist but feel that human brain is so complex that we won't know all about it for a long time, "If the brain was simple enough for us to understand it, we wouldn't have the capacity to understand it" or something like that.

I like MUSIC, the means to play it is merely a tool.  Look at the systems that many professional musicians have - "audiophiles" would laugh.

I assume that you're in the US?  The UK Post Office has just released a set of Pink Floyd stamps. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36382247 (Live in Pompei playing as I type.)

Cheers,

Ian.


---

UK. H: +44 (0) 1242 519990.  M: +44 (0) 7887 636349

De. H: +49 (0) 69 8383 4602.  M: +49 (0) 175 987 5433 (Laila)

On 27-05-2016 11:26, Fred Maxwell [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EAC] wrote:


Hello Ian,

Let's not forget the "Shakti Stones":  http://www.shakti-innovations.com/audiovideo.htm

Bybee Technologies offers "Quantum Purifiers":  http://bybeetech.com/?page_id=11

Here's some cheap snake-oil that's been around for more than 25 years — AudioPrism CD Stoplight.  A $24.95 marker (pen) to paint the edges of CDs green in order to, according to the manufacturer, "passively reduce the the effects of stray light that ultimately causes jittar[sic]. By absorbing the stray light at the transport passively, rather than attempting to reduce it's effects downstream electronically, jitter is reduced at the source-keeping it out of the playback chain... Compact Discs treated with CD Stoplight sound more neutral, less edgy and significantly more open.":  http://www.audioprism.com/cd_stopight_application.pdf

And here are some "wonderful" products that are now out of production:

We have $485 wooden volume knobs:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050721081251/http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C<http://web.archive.org/web/20050721081251/http:/www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C>

ALTMANN "TUBE-O-LATOR" LACQUER, a paint that makes solid state parts sound like tubes (now only used on their in-house products):
http://www.altmann.haan.de/tubeolator/

I'm going to stop now — the temptation to join/incite an angry mob with pitchforks and torches is getting too great.

Regards,
   Fred

On May 27, 2016, at 5:05 AM, Ian McPherson [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EAC] <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:



Hello All -

I am very happy with EAC and my audio systems and just keep an eye on the forum for anything that grabs my attention.  The recent debates on improvements to systems have piqued my interest so I looked up Peter Belt to find that he is still in business and selling his snake oil "treatments", some of which sound rather Tolkeinesque to me.  There was some debate in the UK audio world about 20 years ago and his methods were debunked as nonsense.

If you want a chuckle have a look here:

http://www.pwbelectronics.co.uk/pwb-price-list

All the best,

Ian,

---

UK. H: +44 (0) 1242 519990.  M: +44 (0) 7887 636349

De. H: +49 (0) 69 8383 4602.  M: +49 (0) 175 987 5433 (Laila)

On 27-05-2016 09:25, 'Leif G. Romell' [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EAC] wrote:


Could not agree more with Gerry on the voodoo factor of Audiophile HiFi. The amount of money some people are prepared to put into extremely questionable equipment has always fascinated me. Examples include £5,500 for a one-metre mains cord to supply AC from the wall to the amp; special paint to paint the circumference of CDs so that they sound better, small plastic spacers shaped like powerline towers intended to suspend speaker cable at a certain distance above the floor and small pieces of wood (£1,500 each) that if placed on top of your speakers are supposed to improve the sound. Once you reach a certain quality of equipment, I would argue that the best investment you can make in improving your sound would be to change your room layout, furnishings, carpets, curtains etc. - that will have an audible effect on your listening enjoyment.

I also gravitated a few years back to the professional audio community, which has a lot to contribute to a home listening experience. Think balanced cables, isolation transformers (for little money!), active speakers, flat response curves, room treatment...


On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Gerry Pehl [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EAC] <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


Thank you Fred!

I lurk on a list for rigorous audio professional practitioners, which means they model and measure audio for/in acoustic environments for the purpose of design and optimization of electro-acoustic systems and the spaces they interact with, and these practitioners are in the business of _reproducing_ sounds as accurately as possible, without 'artistry'.

Nothing on the list is derided more than the 'audio phools' who can't validate any opinion with ABX testing, meaning you can't actually demonstrate a perceptible difference. When they _can_ demonstrate a perceptible difference, it pretty much always seems to be the case that they've simply altered the sound in a way they like, which is fine, but if you do that, now you're an artist, changing the sound that Miles Davis or Kanye West intended. Ultimately, the 'audiophile' community of today seems to be primarily about tribalism, and so the most important thing is to elevate their ethos above the unwashed masses. That's why any form of 'proof' of claims is derided as unimportant and irrelevant, and rather substituted with florid descriptions that can't be quantified. What you like is great for you, it's just not science.

The purpose of that rant was simply to state that I've seen members of this group (synaudcon- funny name, very old organization) periodically post actual _measurements_ of various iphone models, and it turns out that they have been uniformly very good (meaning linear, with minimal phase distortion)- you really need to get into a DAC that's in the $1,000's per channel to beat them. This was the last time I checked- it might be that there are newer, more cost-effective DAC's out there, but at that point I think you've got to get realistic- what is your listening space? Ambient noise? Your speakers? Are you sitting down to listing in the best position?


Gerry Pehl


From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 7:23 AM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EAC] Hardware to room play the collection


On May 26, 2016, at 4:56 AM, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [EAC] <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Apologies for the thread hijack, just singling out this bit:
>
> The audio quality problem depends on a number of factors, like how
> you're connecting your library play-out system (e.g. iPhone) to your
> speaker system (e.g., Bluetooth, headphone jack cable)
>
Supposedly the iPhone's internal DAC and other audio components are
not all that great - best to get an external DAC or a decent dock.
Just google "iPhone [model #] DAC/dock" and check review sites such as
head-fi.org<http://head-fi.org/> and whathifi.com<http://whathifi.com/>.
That's simply untrue of the modern iPhones.  Here's a very good, instrumented review of the iPhone 5:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm

In it, Ken Rockwell concludes:

"Confirming what I hear with critical listening, the iPhone 5 is a wonderful high-fidelity audio source. While publications funded mostly by advertisements from makers of expensive cables, power conditioners and outboard DACs don't want you to know this, the iPhone 5 is a better audio source than most DACs will be when connected to a computer or CD transport. The only difference is that the iPhone has a level 6 dB lower than a proper CD player, but the iPhone still has more output at 1 V full-scale than some outboard audiophile DACs!
...
Ignore those who confuse the iPhone with crappy MP3 players; the iPhone has wonderful audio quality for serious music listening either directly with good or great headphones or plugged into the rest of your high fidelity system."

head-fi.org<http://head-fi.org/> and whathifi.com<http://whathifi.com/> are filled with "subjective" reviews authored by people standing in a circle trying to impress one another with their "refined taste" and "superb listening skills."  If you secretly put an iPhone 6 inside of a case with a 1/4" thick milled front panel sporting a pretentious sounding name in cursive script and a $1700 price tag, many of the same "reviewers" who panned the iPhone 6 would be telling you how wonderful this "new" audiophile DAC sounds.  That's because they are like so many of the "wine connoisseurs" with "refined palates" who praise $7 wines from grocery stores when they do blind tastings but call those same wines undrinkable dreck when they watch them poured from the labeled bottles before tasting them.

Sorry for the rant, but I've been into high-end audio since the 1980s and it's disgusting how it has devolved into something akin to "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Regards,
  Fred