Re: The picture

On 02/08/2013 04:49 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> On Sat, February 9, 2013 2:27 am, Michiel Broek wrote:
>> On 02/08/2013 02:44 AM, David Nielson wrote:
>>> I've just looked the diagram over, and I think that's a bit more
>>> complicated and at the same time less useful. That's two sets of
>>> crossovers, and two sets of limiters, and more volume controls that
>>> don't seem necessary.
>> The original question was to extent Jamin for live music production.
>> Then you need a speaker management thing that is not equal to the
>> crossover frequencies that we already have. It's a different thing.
>>
>>> The first crossover, instead of being fixed at 3-way, should be n-way
>>> (where n is up to whatever limit gets decided upon). Each band should
>>> then have its own compressor, with+balance adjustments, boost, output
>>> gain which can be ganged together, limiters that can be ganged together,
>>> and delay. This will simplify things greatly and reduce the number of
>>> widgets that have to be implemented.
>>>
>>> Each of these separate chains would have its own outputs. If Jamin
>>> wanted, it could also present a pre-summed version that has its own
>>> limiter and final output gain.
>>>
>>> IMO, a user is much more likely to want more separate compression bands
>>> than output crossover bands. Separate bands for sub-bass, mid-bass,
>>> mid-range, sibilance, and high treble, would be useful in any situation,
>>> but few people have 6-way speaker systems.
>> And that is exactly why earlier this week I said to fork Jamin into a
>> new application. This is what the users people want:
>>
>> 1 . Jamin as it is now but more bands for the compressors. I think this
>> is a good valid wish. And it is still a mastering device.
>>
>> 2. Abuse Jamin as a PA speaker management thingy by adding crossovers
>> and output channels. It becomes more complicated and has things you
>> don't need for live sound processing. This could be just a thing that
>> has many of Jamin's components but is quite different.
>>
>> 3. Abuse Jamin as transmitter modultation optimizer, this is also what
>> Jamin is not designed for and should be a different application.
>>
>>
>> Currently attempts are being done to add 2 in 1. I think it would be
>> better to improve the existing Jamin with a choice to use more
>> compressor bands. Just simple stereo in, stereo out.
>>
>>
>> Fork Jamin to build application 2, Jack Speaker Management Processor.
>> Stereo in, 2x2, 2x3, 2x4, 2x5 or 2x6 channels out. Jamin has all this,
>> but it is not the same. It is like drinking beer from a coffee cup, it
>> works, but in the end you want a real beerglass and not a thing that
>> holds everything.
>>
> Given that JAMin hasn't been worked on for a number of years as long as we
> don't break any of the existing functionality I don't see why it can't be
> extended to be more flexible.
There is nothing against that, improvements are always appreciated.
>
> I am happy with adding a multiband speaker management interface. That
> would be a very powerful tool and very useful for a broad range of cases.
> IMO it is a good idea to build on top of the work that has already been
> done on JAMin.
>
> I also like the idea of daemon mode being used for radio transmissions.
> That is very cool and shows the flexibility of the application.
It is not such strange idea to use a speaker management or transmitter 
optimizer in daemon mode. It can even run out of sight of the sound 
engineer. These devices would only need to be adjusted once. And then 
between them and the main mixing console Jamin can be freely 
controllable next to the engineer to adjust the artistic part of the sound.

It could be the same application configured to do a different task, but 
also different apps.

>
> At the end of the day JAMin is an FX box. It is a tool for Mastering but
> not the only way to master and in some cases is considered to be
> completely unnecessary. There is no point in getting hung up about whether
> or not it is fulfilling the role of a mastering tool. We should embrace it
> as a professional engineering solution and enjoy the possibilities and
> flexibility that available to us.
>
> The real fun is coming up with a powerful UI to manage all the
> possibilities while maintaining an efficient and intuitive workflow.
>

That certainly is a big challenge to design the renewed ui. At this time 
I would say that we all must have the same idea what the desired 
internal design should be, and then try to redesign the ui around it. At 
this moment everyone wants something different added.



gtx, Michiel.


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