Re: [mb-users] Rare transcriptions

2012/10/3 Frederic Da Vitoria <[email protected]>

> 2012/10/3 symphonick <[email protected]>
>
>> I had planned to do CSG works structure as my next RFC anyway, so let's
>> see if we can agree on something here.
>>
>> Different versions of a work - when should a new work be created?
>>
>> 2012/10/2 Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren <[email protected]>
>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 12:33 AM, Alex Mauer <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/02/2012 03:05 PM, Frederic Da Vitoria wrote:
>>>> > I am always annoyed by this kind of edit: this is not a recording of
>>>> Clair
>>>> > de lune but of a transcription of it. IMO this edit is currently
>>>> valid,
>>>> > because there is no other way to enter it. I know we decided we
>>>> shouldn't
>>>> > create a new work for each transcription, and I agree that in cases
>>>> such as
>>>> > this one it would be overkill and it would clutter the database with
>>>> Works
>>>> > with only one Recording. But wouldn't adding a "transcription"
>>>> attribute to
>>>> > the Recording-Work AR be a good idea?
>>>>
>>>> I would say they should be separate works, and we should improve our
>>>> display of related works.
>>>>
>>>> I just ran into BWV 645 which is a transcription for organ of BWV 140 so
>>>> obviously the traditional catalogs do this at least in some cases.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Personally, I'd agree with making all transcriptions separate works (and
>>> making works include instrumentation info). Of course, that gets messy
>>> sometimes when we don't know what a specific recording is, so we'd need
>>> some kind of catch-all work for those... :/
>>>
>>
>> "Wachet auf" is a good example. There's the original chorale by Nicolai
>> (1599), two versions by JS Bach, and lots of transcriptions/arrangements
>> that can be based on Bach's organ version or the orchestral version -
>> probably impossible to tell in many cases. Also the same arrangement (say
>> for violin & piano) can of course be performed on many different
>> instruments.
>>
>> How should this fit together?
>>
>> 1) Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme by Philipp Nicolai ("earliest
>> version"?)
>> 2) Zion hört die Wächter singen by JS Bach (Tenor Choral from BWV 140)
>> 3) Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme, BWV 645 by JS Bach (organ
>> transcription of 2)
>> 4) Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme by JS Bach (Coro from BWV 140)
>>
>> and 3 random arrangements:
>>
>> A1) Wachet auf by JS Bach (possibly based on 3)
>> http://www.amazon.com/Canadian-Brass-More-Greatest-Hits/dp/B000003EO3
>> A2) Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme by JS Bach (probably an orchestral
>> transcription of 2)
>> http://www.amazon.com/Sleepers-Awake-Cantata-No-140/dp/B001BEEC76
>> A3) Piano arrangment by Wilhelm Kempff
>> http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/cat/single?sort=newest_rec&COMP_ID=BACJS&PRODUCT_NR=4790314&ART_ID=KEMWI&flow_per_page=50&UNBUYABLE=1&per_page=50&presentation=flow(DG website has a title based on BWV140, a cover scan of another release
>> had "Organ prelude")
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>
> And we could add
> http://musicbrainz.org/recording/ba5543c9-30fb-4ed5-aa07-10161dc3e993 ,
> although it has one foot outside the scope of classical, we'll have to
> decide how to handle this type of situation too.
>
>
Yeah, it makes sense to have a separate work for this. But I wonder what
happens if more "jazz" versions exist of Wachet auf by other artists? Would
"normal" MB want to have only one work, but CSG wants one for every
arranger/artist?


> My first thought is that the idea of creating a Work for each
> transcription has the advantage of being simple. I like simplicity. It
> would probably mean removing Transcriber AR at least from Classical music.
>
> Some users feared that it would trigger the creation of too many Works
> which would be seldom used. Do we have a way to measure the current
> situation? Counting the Arranger ARs to Recordings?
>
> --
> Frederic Da Vitoria
> (davitof)
>
> Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
> http://www.april.org
>

That's likely. We will also need a way to show arranger in the search
results, or else we must repeat the arranger in the disambiguation field. &
what should we do when we dont know what version is being used? example:
Handel - Messiah in original version & Mozart's arrangement. Should there
be a super-work?

Messiah (super-work)
-Messiah (original)
-Messiah (Mozart arr.)

& what to do if I know a work is a transcription, but not who wrote it? Or
when it could be a transcription, but it could also be the original score
with different instruments?

/symphonick

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