Re: Windows support (was: Pissed Off)

Problem one.
you assume unix needs windows to survive.  This is false. Unix has 
survived for over 30 years without needing windows.  They are not 
connected in that way. Popularity only effects speed, it has no direct 
relationship to success or longevity.
Two, You assume open source needs a userbase to survive.  No, it merely 
needs interested programmers to survive.  It started with zero users, it 
can survive with zero users since the programmers were the users.  It's 
the programmer's interest that may or may not be dependent on users. 
But there's hardly a rule to govern the programmers personal motives in 
writing a piece of software, be it a patch or entire program.
Three, philisophical reasons do not outweigh technical reasons, 
especially when you dont agree with the philosophy.  Self preservation 
dictates that you remove what is killing you to stay alive.  Right now 
we have an enourmous amount of duplicated functionality in separate code 
that none of us are keeping maintained with the code we are maintaining. 
  Either we die trying to keep something that doesn't want to live alive 
or we drop it and keep what does want to live alive and have the project 
live on. It has nothing to do with keeping the good  fight or converting 
people from their propriatary/closed source programs.

I have no desire to change people's minds from what they're using.  And 
I have my own reasons for not liking that approach and there's a time 
and place to do that kind of thing but I dont believe in making a 
religion out of it. I believe a piece of software should be popular on 
it's own merits, not what philosophy it follows.  If it's good it will 
be used.  If the worse product is more popular because it's advertised 
more and has more money then who cares. Let everyone use something that 
sucks. Why would I care? I'm not using it.  People spend too much time 
worrying about what other people care about instead of bettering the 
things they have and worrying what they care about.  I write what i like 
to write, let other people do whatever they want.


also, your example of gimp differs greatly from the win32 port of zinf. 
  Gimp uses win32 gtk which means they can use most of their own old 
code and it's compiled in cygwin.  Two things we dont do currently.  If 
we were to do something like that we'd have to throw out the win32 port 
anyway.  Either way the win32 port as it is now would have to be removed 
completely and started over to make work in this manner.  Anyone 
interested in getting zinf compiling under cygwin can go ahead.  If we 
do ever have a win32 port again it's going to be somewhat like that.




When you talk about software where the people developing it dont get 
paid, end users do not become part of the equation.  The only reason why 
programmers listen to end users is out of kind of heart or because they 
like the feeling of people depending on them, they take pride in the 
fact people are using something they wrote.  The truth is programs start 
out because the programmer wants something for themselves or want to 
change something to the way they like it.  This is why a userbase has no 
direct relationship with zinf.  Zinf will survive whether it has 100000 
users or 1 so long as the 1 user is a developer of it.  Having what we 
like comes before having what end users like.  If this wasn't true how 
long do you think programmers writing code will write code they dont 
like for free?


Not that we dont listen to end users as programmers and take comments or 
bug reports and such as being worth reading.  Zinf's purpose is to be a 
easy to use highly functional and efficient audio player.  That's not 
lost to us or me.  Which is why the grossly innefficient code must be 
removed.

> 
> To the Zinf team and all else concerned:
> 
> Though the technical issues can be demonstrated to overwhelmingly support the abandonment of the Win32 port of Zinf, there are compelling philosophical reasons to keep it alive and stable.
> 
> What fraction of computer users use Win32 systems?  The overwhelming majority.  Mac, Solaris, Linux, etc. all together add up to a very small fraction of users.  (This is referring to the desktop market, which is where the bulk of the demand for a multimedia player should be.)
> 
> What platform is most FS/OS software developed for?  Mostly GNU/Linux and other Unix variants.
> 
> If you support FS/OS software for any reason, whether it be philosophical (free as in free speech), economical (FS/OS is much cheaper to develop and produces a superior product), emotional (I hate/fear Bill Gates), or otherwise, it is IMPERATIVE that FS/OS be available to the mass of computer users who are using Win32 simply because they don't know any better.
> 
> I first heard of Linux several years ago.  I thought it was a good idea, but I certainly wasn't ready to abandon my computational comfort zone.  While cautiously learning more about the FS/OS movement I came across a release of The GIMP for Win32, which I promptly downloaded and installed.  I was impressed beyond expression.  Anyone familiar with The GIMP knows that it is fabulous and powerful software, comparable to Adobe Photoshop, and licensed freely under the GNU GPL.  After my experience with The GIMP, I made the switch to Linux as my primary OS.  (I must confess that I still use Win95 on my home computer, simply because multitrack recording on Linux is still quite immature.  But on my Win95 machine I use The Gimp, Mozilla, Zinf, OpenOffice, and as many FS/OS utilities as I can find.  I use Linux at work.)
> 
> For FS/OS to thrive (and perhaps even to survive, if you've read about MS Palladium and the TCPA), we need more and more users to make the switch from their proprietary status quo.  The best way to do that is to compete in the same playing field - the Win32 system.  When Win32 users are converted to the benefits of FS/OS, they will support it more and more.  People are far more likely to download a free program and try it on their Win32 computer than they are to blow away their system and install Linux.  Consequetly, we need FS/OS products that run on Win32.
> 
> I install FS/OS software on computers owned by my family members.  My brother is a computer know-not-much, but he loves Zinf.  My Dad just loves tabbed browsing in Mozilla.  They're not going to move to Linux anytime soon, but at least they are becoming familiar with the benefits of FS/OS and will do what they can to support it.
> 
> I know that Zinf is a small project in comparison to The GIMP and Mozilla, and that resources may not allow you to continue development for Win32, but please consider this philosophical arguement in your decision making.
> 
>>From one Win32 user that LOVES Zinf,
> 
> Milo



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