Re: alive e/ken style projects?

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Marc Stiegler <[email protected]> wrote:

> ah, you want to use waterken, which builds the reliability into the
> promises along with the pipelining, by retrying relentlessly until it gets
> a resolution (the app developer can easily implement a timeout if desired,
> but in general the right answer is to just let waterken do its thing). It
> is magnificent to use. One suspects at this point that we will not see
> anything comparable again in our lifetimes, sorta like KeyKos
>

seL4 -- it has both L4 and EROS as direct parents.
IMO the architecture is more KeyKOS-family-like than L4-like.
seL4 really is rather extraordinary in a large number of ways.



> or Xanadu.
>

According to our old http://www.caplet.com/papers/open-media.html
the main features of Xanadu are:

a) fine-grained, bidirectional, and extrinsic links
b) transclusion
c) historical trails, i.e., integrated high integrity version control
d) detectors
e) permissions (ironically, an ACL system)
f) reputation-based filtering
g) hypermedia
h) external transclusion

The web as a whole misses most of these. GitHub contains a surprising
number, integrated and working together. Rereading our old paper with
GitHub in mind is an uplifting experience.



Sometimes it is hard to notice when we win, if the victory is dressed in
different clothing.



> --marcs
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:51 AM, Matt Rice <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> One of the things i've had difficulty with trying to use automagic
>> promise pipelining in is unreliable protocols and worse
>> mixed-reliability protocols like SCTP, say there is a promise whose
>> reply gets dropped, is there a need for some reliable exception
>> channel, or will generating an exception on timeout suffice, there
>> really doesn't seem to be an automagic answer afaict...
>>
>> not sure that anybody has tried this sort of thing before, unreliable
>> promises seem a bit counter intuitive, though I haven't used promise
>> pipelining very much, the impression I get is that modeling
>> unreliability makes things weird...
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Mark Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > I wonder whether you are using automagical on two different sides of the
>> > abstraction boundary. In E/CapTP and Cap'n Proto, we platform builders
>> put a
>> > lot of work into building promise pipelining into the platform. The
>> result
>> > is that they are automagical to the users of these platforms.
>> >
>> > I know Waterken had the enabling mechanism for promise pipelining. But I
>> > don't remember if it was completed and made the default mode of
>> operation.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Marc Stiegler <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> pipelining promises is anything but automagical. Capper, my open source
>> >> nodejs server that uses promises and semi-transparent checkpointing and
>> >> webkeys, intended to bring some of the virtues of waterken to
>> javascript,
>> >> does not include pipelining for the promises. The pipelining is far
>> more
>> >> work to implement than are the promises themselves.
>> >>
>> >> --marcs
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Raoul Duke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >> they can be pipelined.  In particular, they can be pipelined over
>> the
>> >>> >> network when invoking operations on remote objects, which means
>> that a
>> >>> > So I would say, yes. But the Javascript community largely hasn't
>> >>> > discovered
>> >>> > it yet. :-)
>> >>>
>> >>> But "can" doesn't mean it happens automagically by the underlying
>> >>> framework. Maybe it does, but I suspect most likely it doesn't, yet?
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Text by me above is hereby placed in the public domain
>> >
>> >   Cheers,
>> >   --MarkM
>> >
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-- 
    Cheers,
    --MarkM

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