RE: [CMS-PR] : Hello, french guy from France..

I think there are still some areas where we disagree, particularly on the
idea that open source is as obviously beneficial a model as open standards.
It wasn't a case of me not taking you seriously. I was making the point that
open standards comes in the same category as world peace. Who is against it?


Open source is probably a good thing too, but just not on a world peace and
chocolate kind of level. Sure, let's have open source, but is it necessarily
the best way forward for someone with serious CMS requirements? That's a
huge discussion - and one that I hope we could have here without any
difficulty. That's perhaps the difference between "mandatory" and
"encourages... to consider". 

I accept, having spent some time following your links, that there are sites
which *do* list vendors of proprietary products. I think I rather overstated
my case with my comment about even-handed coverage; apologies to all
concerned. (Someone's been *very* busy at cmsreview since I last looked.)

Anyway - please don't feel insulted. We all have opinions, and I hope
there's room for that.

Cheers
D

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik M. Hartman - Hartman Communicatie BV
[mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: 14 June 2004 22:51
To: Dominic Cronin; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [CMS] [CMS-PR] : Hello, french guy from France..

Dear Dominic,

A final reply from 'the Dutch guy'.

> ... although I still think 
> that if the site genuinely promoted both open source and open 
> standards, you would list non-open-source software that is 
> standards compliant. 

Please check other Dutch government ICTU-sites (www.advies.overheid.nl,
www.elo.nl) which list non-open-source software as well.
Your product (T......) is listed on the cms overview of Advies Overheid.nl
...
We're even working on a combined list of open source and/or open standard
software, combined with Dutch government IT projects.

By the way, there's also my (new) overview of enterprise content management
systems with T...... listed as well and with lots of emphasis on open
standards. 
Check http://tools.hartman-communicatie.nl. So please do not complain about
the lack of product listing!
But first check available sources before you make statements like this.
 
> Promoting open standards has far more point than promoting open source. 

That's entirely your personal opinion.
As you know already, the Dutch government aims for open standards to be
mandatory in 2006 for all Dutch government IT projects and encourages all
government project to consider open source software "as a full fledged
alternative to closed source" (quote from the OSOSS site).

I guess you heard of the 'vendor lock-in' the Dutch government wants to
diminish. Open source is a serious means to reach this goal.

> I don't have any problem with your open source advocacy site. 

Which site do you mean? Not the Hartman, OSOSS, or any other ICTU site.

> If you feel it is good to promote it, go right ahead. Perhaps 
> it would be even more effective if you promoted open source 
> and world peace, or open source and chocolate! 

But seriously I want world peace! Please check www.worldpeaceispossible.com.
There's an English version as well.

And I like chocolate! Belgium is not far from where I live. It's my second
love.

(yes, if you're not serious, why should I react seriously?).

> I haven't yet seen a site or list published here that gives 
> even-handed coverage to open-source and proprietary CMS 
> software.

Dominic, please open your eyes, clean your glasses and type
http://tools.hartman-communicatie.nl
And there are more listings (Clueful, StepTwo, CMS Review, etc.)

... Surprise!

> I don't expect anything else; it's a commercial 
> world, and the only reason to invest all that time and effort 
> is to try to persuade somebody of something. No disrespect to 
> anyone involved in this process - just a pragmatic outlook.

Hmmmm. I don't agree.

Please check www.cmsreview.com. A wonderful, independent site Bob Doyle (and
others) are really putting much time and effort in.
I feel a bit insulted by this remark of yours. But I believe in world peace,
and world peace starts with mutual respect.
Please visit www.cmsreview.com and make your contributions. Any help is more
than welcome.

The end.

Yours sincerely,

Erik