Re: CMS vs. Wiki

It looks more like that's similar to what we're going to have to do, as 
well.  Time to write up some requirements :-)
Thanks, Seth!

Seth Gottlieb wrote:
> For our project, we are using Java and a web development framework 
> called SpringMVC.  We have a complex, highly nested data model and lot 
> of requirements around data validation so we needed a robust framework 
> to create multiform wizards, default values and also validat user 
> input.  We may also do some client side rich internet application work 
> (such as OpenLazlo (which creates a flash based interface) or DHTML with 
> XMLHTTPRequest (which allows us to load data behind the scenes without a 
> page refresh).
> 
> 
> --Seth
> 
> Dierk Seeburg wrote:
> 
>> Seth,
>> Thanks for your feedback!  Please see more below...
>>
>> Seth Gottlieb wrote:
>>
>>> Choosing a CMS is a lot more complicated than choosing a Wiki.  This is 
>>
>>
>> I've noticed.
>>
>>> mainly because the CMS is broader than the Wiki market, there are 
>>> more products, and there is a diverse set of definitions of what is a 
>>> CMS is.  I highly recommend the CMS Report by CMS Watch.  There is a 
>>> free downloadable version that gives some information that you are 
>>> looking for but the whole report (I have heard) is excellent.
>>>
>>> Bob Doyle's site CMS Review has some excellent free content.  In 
>>> particular, you should check out:  http://www.cmsreview.com/Steps/
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>> Many CMS (open source and proprietary) focus on managing content at 
>>> the page level.  Just managing data in a database might not be a good 
>>> fit 
>>
>>
>> I'm finding that out, too.
>>
>>> for what is classically defined as a CMS.  Recently, I have been 
>>> talking to multiple clients who initially call us in for a content 
>>> management project.  After digging deeper into their requirements, we 
>>> learn that it is more of a data management problem with some content 
>>> management aspects (particularly workflow and deployment).   Just 
>>> something to think about.  Let me know if you want to discuss further.
>>
>>
>> I think this should be a web application after all, maybe I can write 
>> something in PHP and store it in MySQL - any hints on where to go for 
>> templating tools?
>>
>> BTW, great list!
>>
>>> --Seth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dierk Seeburg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Seth!
>>>> I was contemplating the collaborative aspect for our purposes and 
>>>> appreciate your pointers.  We need to manage a number of records in 
>>>> a database for which I would like a web interface.  Is there a place 
>>>> with information on how to choose a CMS like there is for Wikis at, 
>>>> e.g., http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ChoosingaWiki ?
>>>> Thanks again!
>>>> Die
>>>>
>>>> Seth Gottlieb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dierk,
>>>>>
>>>>> In general, Wiki's are more appropriate for collaborative content 
>>>>> management with little or no need for editorial control.  Web CMS 
>>>>> are better for situations where you want to have an editorial 
>>>>> process that controls what goes on the site.   Here are some 
>>>>> questions that might steer you to one or the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is worse, having something wrong appear on the site (like a 
>>>>> typo or incorrect information) or discouraging/impeding someone 
>>>>> from publishing an idea or some information that has the potential 
>>>>> to help others?  If the goal is to harness the creativitiy and 
>>>>> knowledge from as many people as possible,  a Wiki might be the 
>>>>> right tool.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there any need for workflow?  Wiki's generally do not have 
>>>>> workflow or even an approval mechanism.  Once a user makes an edit, 
>>>>> it is live.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you trust your users to manage the content?  Or, said another 
>>>>> way, are your users motivated to improving the quality of the 
>>>>> resource?  If so, go Wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is your organization engaged in a taxonomy initiative to organize 
>>>>> content?  If so, a traditional CMS model might be preferable 
>>>>> because you can delegate an authority to organize and tag content 
>>>>> according to the corporate taxonomy.  The organiziation of a Wiki 
>>>>> is totally organic.  People create pages, people notice 
>>>>> redundencies, people merge pages.  It is a chaotic process that 
>>>>> eventually gravitates towards order (or doesn't).
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you intend to reuse conent in an automated way?  Content in 
>>>>> Wiki's is totally unstructured and, therefore, difficult to reuse 
>>>>> in other applications.   Many web CMS have structured content 
>>>>> (including metadata) that allows assets to be used by different 
>>>>> sites in different ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> I realize that you can solve a lot of these problems with some 
>>>>> simple access control, but I believe it is best to choose a 
>>>>> technology for what it was designed for.
>>>>>
>>>>> So here are some examples of good Wiki's
>>>>> * Wikipedia is able to harness the knowledge of thousands of 
>>>>> readers with a common goal of sharing information.
>>>>> * Open Source Software documentation.   Most Apache projects have a 
>>>>> Wiki where project contributors can quickly and easily add 
>>>>> documentation about the project.  The ease of contribution is one 
>>>>> less excuse for a programmer to procrastinate documentation!
>>>>> * My company uses a Wiki for an internal knowledge base and also a 
>>>>> collaborative workspace on projects (however, we need to take the 
>>>>> text from deliverables and port them into professional looking 
>>>>> documents).
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are somethings that would be better served with a traditional CMS
>>>>> * Your corporate website.
>>>>> * A policy manual.  While I would not be worried about people 
>>>>> tampering with it because their is an audit history, someone might 
>>>>> with good intentions add information that he thought was correct 
>>>>> and temporarily mislead another reader.  Plus, you might want to 
>>>>> transform the online version into a print version and that might be 
>>>>> hard with a Wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dierk Seeburg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I'd be interested in people's opinion on when to use a CMS and 
>>>>>> when to use a Wiki?  For what tasks would you use or not use one 
>>>>>> and not the other?  What are advantages of one over the other?
>>>>>> Thanks a bunch!