RE: ask for help
Srinivas_Kothuri <Srinivas_Kothuri-g8/[email protected]> Wed, 31 Dec 2003 21:20:04 +0530
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.cms.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Graham..I read your mail multiple times to see if i was missing any thing. Today when the technology has advanced so much do you expect the customers to use different tools for 1) content management 2) versioning 3) workflow 4) delivery 5) publish.?? My opinions are based on interacting with a lot of customers who do not want to use different tools to do each of them... customers who are using CMS from scratch would like to do all of them in one GUI or under one desktop... Customers who want enhancements to their CMS want to leverage on some of their existing systems that they have been using for quite a long time but the idea is to slowly make a smooth transition to the new CMS tool. I work on a tool that already has a lot of inbuilt workflow mechanisms .. inspite of which i see the customer asking me to configure the workflow for them with a lot of exceptions very specific to their department or their company the kind of workflows that requires me to program a loot and not use the default workflows already provided by the tool... which means the workflow kinds of tools need to be left for the programmers paradise... the tool needs to have enough flexibility to configure any kind of workflow for the customer including integrating it with the solar system. No exaggerating since i have seen customers asking us to integrate their existing tools with visio, kintana, pega systems and lot of such tools.. Templating has always formed a core and crux of the content management.. The ability to templatize any given website using fixed number of templates always gave the buisness users ease of using .. and playing with the system.. it gave a lot of consistency to the otherwise inconsistent websites with bad look and feel. templatizing gives u the ability to seperate the content layer and the presentation layer giving more flexibility to change the presentation layer any time based on the standards of the company and keeping the content layer constant.. ability to share data across different websites ... too.. sorry if i missed any thing.. and Hope i don't stir too much debate on a new year eve.. -Sri -----Original Message----- From: J Graham Zahoruiko To: 'Bob Doyle'; cms-list-/[email protected] Sent: 12/31/2003 9:00 AM Subject: RE: [cms-list] ask for help Bob, My apologies for not responding sooner - the holidays always seem to slow us all down. I think the outline below is very detailed and excellent and I think it really helps folks see all of the things involved in the 'end-to-end' process for a CMS deployment but there are a few points that I personally see differently. ;-) My opinions are based on seeing way too many failed or overly complex CMS projects that just cost too much and are too risky for the organization. I speak with so many executives and content management project managers who think their CMS or their CMS process sucks and need rescue. I think that it is important to also stress that many vendors would prefer to see customers adopt the 'end-to-end' approach because it means 'lock-in' which is very advantageous to the software vendor, but not so for the customer. As I see it, it sure is safer to lock yourself into the Open RDBMS - then you can swap pieces of technology in and out (including the RDBMS) - then the customer gets all the software vendor looking at things their way. As you know from my prior emails - I've got pretty strong opinions about the Manage - Store - Publish paradigm and how that defines the content management lifecycle. Your outline of the 3 phases is: content management - creation, workflow management, and delivery. (They tend to locate versioning in the second management phase, with multi-platform delivery in the third.) I do think many folks look at the content management lifecycle in the way in which you described but the customers I've spoken with who have looked at the lifecycle in that manor usually get tied up in overly complex engineering scenarios and proprietary paradigms. So a certain "mindset" develops that this is the "way it's done so it must be right." (the combination of all of these processes and technologies into one software system). I absolutely love it when customers ask me: "how does your CMS handle backup?" Why would anyone EVER want to use a CMS for backup? If the content is in the RDBMS - use the backup and security systems already in place - don't duplicate or make your systems overly complex. Workflow is a Huge topic in content management and I do Not believe that workflow should be categorized as the second stage in the content management lifecycle. I think most CMS vendors have workflow that is way too complex and I think the Visio Editor approach to workflow is a Huge mistake (setup should be point and click) - how many content administrators want to learn something so complex and how complex should the content workflow Really be anyway? Also, content management workflow should Only include the necessary workflow for content contributors - so a very simple one. Leveraging workflow for content contributors, administrators, and the IT organization (triggers, events, etc.) makes it overly complex. Look at the parallels here with how 'end to end' CMS software got so complex by combining content creation, workflow, versioning, storage, assembly, delivery, syndication, replication, etc. into one Big Proprietary system. I'm in pain even thinking about it. Also, by separating workflow into a separate category - this adds to the overall integration, customization, cost, and general hassle for the customer. So my view: Manage (Create, Workflow, Version) - Store (Open/No API RDBMS) - Publish (RDBMS pull - scripting languages/application servers/wireless & personalization delivery/etc.) Notice I combine Workflow and Versioning in the Manage category. Workflow and Versioning should be 'built in' and Simple. So, in this case the content management software becomes the TOOL and the combination of the CM TOOL, the RDBMS, and the Open Publishing mechanism becomes the SYSTEM. The other issue that I wanted to address is that Templating should NOT be part of the CMS. Create your templates in your favorite IDE and use something like ClearCase for workflow/versioning of the templates - using a CMS to workflow and version templates means that the CMS is (1) Not geared toward content contributors (2) overly complex, and (3) not focused on minimizing customer risk and cost. To stress my point: If the CMS or the CMS process sucks, then look at it this way: Content Management is: Creation, Workflow, Versioning. Templating, Storage, Publishing, Backup, Security, or anything else that is combined with or added to a content management software is absolutely the Wrong approach and Risky in my humble opinion. That's it for now - hope I don't stir up too much of a debate today! ________________________ J Graham Zahoruiko President & CEO Refresh Software Corporation 51 Middlesex Street North Chelmsford, MA 01863 P: 978-251-8870 x221 F: 978-251-8872 www.refreshsoftware.com SiteRefresh - Core Content Management Free Online Trial & Developers Sandbox -----Original Message----- From: cms-list-admin-/[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bob Doyle Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:13 AM To: cms-list-/[email protected] Subject: Re: [cms-list] ask for help Graham, We can get to more consistent definitions, and this includes taking note of the different terminologies. It's in the nature of language itself to have synonyms and metaphors for everything. Between engineers making up their own terms and marketing types seeking a unique jargon to hype otherwise standard products, it's surprising we have what little agreement you do find. In my reading of the major books on Content Management (Boiko, Rockley, Hackos, Nakano) there is actually a lot of agreement with the idea of three phases of content management - creation, workflow management, and delivery. (They tend to locate versioning in the second management phase, with multi-platform delivery in the third.) At the CMSML initiative (http://www.cmsml.org), we are hoping to specify these phases in greater detail, to help classify different CM systems. It's also at CMS Review (http://www.cmsreview.com/Features/Lists.html), and in a Gilbane Report (http://www.cmsreview.com/Reviews/GilbaneReport1.pdf). Criticisms most welcome. It's a work in progress. Here is a recent draft: ____________________________________ Content Creation (Acquisition, Aggregation, Authoring) * Acquisition o Native support for filetypes o Multiple file transfers (FTP, site import) o Conversion tools (e.g.,Word to XML "chunks") o Rights management o Mandatory tagging (force structure and semantics) o Supported RDF ontologies (e.g., Dublin Core) * Aggregation o Incoming syndicated feeds o Metadata management (read incoming metadata) o Integrated Web services (e.g., currency conversion) o UDDI tools * Authoring (Editing Tools, Templating, Tagging) o Content Element Editors (Naive and Power Users) + WYSIWYG Through-The-Web + Text-only Forms + XML Editor + Spell checker + Content objects use templates + Asset repository (images, sounds, Flash, video, etc.) o Template Editor + WYSIWYG Through-The-Web + Template Gallery + XML Editor o Tag Editor (semantics and style) + Drop-down menus of all tags + Metadata Thesaurus + Taxonomies/Ontologies online o Help online + Context-sensitive help + Documentation + Examples Content Management Proper (Workflow, Editing, Approvals, Staging, Repository, etc.) * Workflow o Access Permission Levels (Privilege granularity) + Number of levels + Per User, Per Folder, Per Role, Per Item + Flexible assignments to workflow + Creator automatic owner + User subscription to workflow o Check In/Check Out + Open page on web (Edit this page) + Automatic file lock on open + Conflict Resolution (who has it?) + Instant Messaging (email, phones) + Merge Tools, Diffs o Workflow Messaging + Email notifications (links to work) + Status (stage in workflow) + Comments at each stage + Audit trail (workflow log) o Arbitrary Roles (Writers, Editors, Graphic Artists, Rights Managers, Publishers, etc.) * Versioning o Scheduling, Expiration o All elements, templates date/time stamped o Archive with rollback (per file or site?) * Personalization o Relationship Management (History) o Actions tracking o Session/Click/Behavior analysis o Individual visitor ID (cookies) * Localization o Multilingual server + Respond to browser language requests + Gist translation option o Workflow + Automatic notifications + Quality checkers o UI multilingual * Reporting o Chrono workflow and by worker o WebTrends-style for whole site o Specific monitors o Performance (page delivery times) * Storage o Format (text, HTML, XML) o Database only o Files o Files and database * Backup o Onsite and offsite o Files and database o To nonvolatile media o Disaster recovery plan * Security o Firewall rules o Encrypted sessions * Staging Server for QA o Testing methodology o Replicates publishing environment Content Delivery (Live Server, Publishing, Syndication) * Publishing (Delivery) o Separate Delivery from Creation/Staging/Testing + Use different server platform? + Replication + Synchronization of mirror sites o Multi-Publishing to different clients + PDAs + Cell phones + Handicap accessibility * Syndication o RDF Syndicated News Feeds o Web services J Graham Zahoruiko wrote: >Hi, > >That's a really good question. Having been in this business for >several years - I haven't found much consistency, accuracy, or >agreement on terminology from anyone. For instance, many on this post >already know my view on what a Content Management System is - and that >is - it is Not a storage or publishing system but a system for the >"management" of content (create, workflow, version). > >Graham > >-----Original Message----- >From: cms-list-admin-/[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >On Behalf Of ̔̈ >Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 3:39 AM >To: cms-list-/[email protected] >Cc: [email protected] >Subject: [cms-list] ask for help > > >Hello,all! >I want to know the difference between content life cycle, content >management life cycle and content management system cycle? I also want >to know workflow role in the content management sysytem.I read many >articles,most say CMS is made up of collection system, management >system and publishing system.I also see some article say it should >include workflow system.So I want to know which is more accurate? Thank >you! > > > > -- Bob Doyle, Editor In Chief CMS Review http://www.cmsreview.com 77 Huron Avenue Cambridge, MA 02138 617-876-5678 -- http://cms-list.org/ please trim your posts. -- http://cms-list.org/ please trim your posts. ************************************************************************** This email (including any attachments) is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient/s and may contain material that is CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVATE COMPANY INFORMATION. Any review or reliance by others or copying or distribution or forwarding of any or all of the contents in this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. 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