Re: Was: [Re: [OGo-XML-RPC] zogi - birthDate attribute of Contact]

> > We stink at marketing! :)  Also I think the pool of people who need a
> > "real" groupware server isn't terribly large.  The worst thing here is
> > that the current website it pretty darn awful and extremely out of date.
> I think marketing is hard, and especially for small groups.  The internet 
> is a crowded place.  I just commented this morning on the ycombinator site 
> where people thought there was no rival to Sharepoint (like Lotus Notes 

There also seems to be a powerful bias against Notes in some circles.
Personally,  I've never run a production Notes server - I just have one
here to poke at,  and I've read some documentation.  But I also read
TechNet articles relating to Exchange.  None of these products are
"simple".

> and OGO don't exist).  One could say that these are highly-motivated and 
> savvy people, but somehow people have a blind-spot when it comes to 
> groupware.  If someone wants the bees-knees of groupware then Notes has no 
> competition.

Agree, based on my limited experience.  Notes is the only one that seems
to have succeeded in being both an application and a platform which,
IMO, describes good groupware.   Exchange is often more of an
application, while Sharepoint is more of a platform.  And Exchange,
while it has more users certainly, doesn't seem to have nearly the
active and open developer community that notes does
<http://www.openntf.org/internal/home.nsf>

> If they want something free and open (as many at ycombinator 
> do), I'd expect them to have some idea of what was available.  I think 
> that all businesses need groupware providing at the very minimum the 
> features of OGO.  The businesses just don't know it :-)

"  I think that all businesses need groupware providing at the very
minimum the features of OGO.  The businesses just don't know it :-)"

Man, how many times have I said that during a pitch/presentation! :)

Inevitably you'll have at least one of these <http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html> in your audience. 

> > If you want to make a tiny contribution to project marketing I think it
> > is useful to go to the major Open Source software index [freshmeat] and
> > rate the project(s) and possibly add a kind word in a comment.  Someone
> > looking for software will then have some indication that there is
> > interest in the product.   People often mistakenly get the idea that
> > OpenGroupware is dead/moribund.
> I've done that.  But to be honest, I can't remember the last time I 
> bothered to read stuff at freshmeat - maybe that's just me ;-)

It certainly isn't as popular as it once was but still probably the most
complete index of software projects.

> > In the same manner Ohloh is an up-and-comer in such things.  You can
> > "stack" software you use so other people can get a [extremely
> > unscientific] estimate on the size of the community around a project.
> > Ohloh also lets you submit reviews.
> I can't seem to get to Ohloh this morning.  I'll have a look later.

Ohloh actually offers some convenient and easy to use tools.  Especially
the ability to check if anyone is committing code to a project anymore.
It also has some flaws such as really underestimating the activity of
some projects depending on how they are structured.

> And to tell you the truth, even 
> with paid for, close source, massively used products like Notes, if it 
> wasn't for the fact that I'd received a lot of training in Notes admin 10 
> years ago, I am sure I would struggle getting internet mail working in a 
> new Notes install.

I was happy when I could even get Notes to run!  But I'm not saying that
was a fault of Notes,  I had no idea what I was doing.  And the
documentation is of typical IT quality. :)

> > Documentation is a bit scant,  I've gathered some up here
> > <
> http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/Development/index_html/view
> > > that is more specifically developer focused than what is in 
> > WMOGAG.  I've also accumulated a collection of Obj-C related 
> > articles and what not;  if your ever interested I'll tarball those 
> > and send them off-list.
> Yes, please do.  I'm not even someone with a background in C, so ObjC is a 
> strange beast to me.  Although I have liked some of the stuff I've read by 
> Brad Cox.

Will do.

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