Re: [OSCOM] Announcement: Magnolia introduces official training -starts on May 9th

First, my humble opinion on the topic of this thread.... the discussion 
following the advertisement is worse than me having to delete just the 
advertisement itself.  If a tastefully done ad appears once every blue 
moon, delete it.  I've shaken Boris' hand at OSCOM '04 in Zürich and 
can say first hand he's an upstanding guy working on a pretty darn 
slick system.  His knowledge and most importantly his contribution to 
the OSCOM community has been outstanding from the (arguably limited) 
interactions I've had with him both in person and electronically.  It's 
companies that make money on open source that keep the wheels oiled and 
the engine in tune - don't shun it, embrace it when it is done 
tastefully.

Continue on to read my personal (though sent publicly because that 
seems to be the only way to communicate with her) message to Tina...

On Apr 30, 2005, at 12:23 AM, Tina Greene wrote:
>>
>> good question ... To be honest your announcement seemed to me also 
>> like spam,
>> but your are right about the description. Maybe it's because the 
>> assumption
>> is that the events which are "exepected" on this mailing list should 
>> be non-profit,
>> which also allows an admittance fee of course, whereas your event 
>> doesn't sound
>> like a non-profit event. On the other hand an Apache conference isn't 
>> non-profit
>> for the organizer either, whereas for the ASF it is.
>>
>
> quick clarification, & please forgive me as it is late & I may be 
> "splitting hairs here" or  misunderstanding exactly what you are 
> saying, - but as the ApacheCon US Conference Organizer/Producer and 
> the person who is solely responsible for funding the past three (ACUS 
> 2002/2003/2004) US ApacheCons'  the conference is hopefully NOT 
> non-profit for the ASF, as a matter of point it is one of the most 
> important potential areas of "profit" (in the form of a donated 
> revenue share,) i.e., funding for the ASF, and a significant portion 
> of any and all net profits do get sent to the ASF, if it loses money, 
> I take the hit, but if it is "the black" even a dollar, money is sent 
> to the ASF. There was always very very serious attention and thought 
> as to the delicate balance of what we wanted to do (i.e., keep 
> attendance as inclusive financially as possible by keeping the reg 
> cost low, while trying not to financialy harm my co., as well as have 
> a profit so I could make that donation to the ASF) Again, this was a 
> great situation for everyone the way it is set up, no potential 
> financial liability for the ASF, with them retaining complete content 
> control, while being a  potential healthy source of donation as well 
> as the event itself,
> - which is the most important thing of all...
> Tina.
> Tina Greene, President Security Travel



Tina,

I'm sincerely trying to understand your point of view here, but my 
experience with you regarding ApacheCon opposes it.

I have communicated with you a few times, mostly right after I publicly 
blasted your handling of ApacheCon '04.

Recent message interactions, on and off this very list.  On this list 
(Re: [OSCOM] Is there going to be a U.S. Oscom?) you had some fairly 
forward marketing:

>> Hi
>> I would be happy to help you guys out with this, either in the Boston 
>> area (I have several conventions there) or outside Boston in an 
>> alternative location in the US...
>> Tina.
>> Tina Greene President Security Travel
>> Conference Producer ApacheCon US 2004
>> 323 656-0796

I took a personal interest in your message due to a still unresolved 
business issue with Security Travel.  We'll let it play out with our 
own words...

> From: Erik Hatcher <[email protected]>
> Date: February 10, 2005 5:23:25 AM EST
> To: "Tina Greene" <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [OSCOM] Is there going to be a U.S. Oscom?
>
> Tina,
>
> Since you've not replied to my several prior private e-mails, I'll 
> reply here publicly to you.  Both times I've presented at ApacheCon 
> there were hassles with Security Travel reimbursing me.  I'm still 
> owed my airfare reimbursement for ApacheCon '04.
>
> I would recommend OSCOM not choose Security Travel based on my 
> experiences.  Overall, though, ApacheCon works out well for attendees 
> and I hope that my experience with your company is unique and not a 
> generalization.
>
> 	Erik

...

Offlist, two replies later (dated February 10, 2005 2:40:20 PM EST)
...
"Hi Eric[sic], ... But this is a fact you have had problems with 
getting paid & that is all my fault...
so you will have the payment next week,"

Talk about being thrown into time portal to the future.  May 1, 2005 it 
is.  Check must still be in the mail... damn post office :P

March 21... "it will be at least till the end of this week till I can 
pay you, you'll get a chashiers[sic] check via snail mail. Again, i 
apologize for the delay, no excuse, just people not paying me 
(inclusive of very very late ApacheCon exhibitor paymets)
I will e-mail you again on Friday if I see this is still not possible 
yet."  Imagine that, people not paying you.  Harrrrrumph.  I do not 
doubt that ApacheCon lost money so a financial hit was had and affected 
you.  But I can say firsthand that conference organizers with their act 
together do quite well with top quality technical conferences, and the 
top speakers receive appropriate compensation for their skills.  Your 
compensation for speakers is better than the zoo called JavaOne, and I 
am pleased to present at ApacheCon for the perks - but I'm still 
missing part of it.  I have spoken frequently at NFJS and OSCON, both 
of which are profitable and run class act shows, and have come through 
with their reimbursements in a timely manner.

I have mentioned this situation to Ken Coar privately, but have not 
officially asked for any Apache assistance to rectify it.  Hell, it's 
only a couple hundred bucks even.  So I had a trip to Vegas that cost 
me a few hundred bucks - I had a blast - that'sa cheap vacation!  The 
point is principle, not money.  You could have told me straight up, 
"times are tough, i'll pay you when i can" - that'd have been cool and 
you wouldn't have heard a word from me on it - the universal karmic 
energies would have taken care of things without a doubt (and they 
still will - you chose to change the direction though).  Yet mails (who 
runs a business off a Hotmail address?) to you since have gone 
unanswered.

I apologize for sending this personal issue to the OSCOM list.

	Erik