Re: [Tiki-devel] Packages and Fitness Check not working

Dear Marc, Michael and all,

I understand both perspectives.

 From my experience, Packages runs well on all-inkl.com what is a quite 
Tiki friendly shared hosting with ssh, svn and git (for the premium plan 
for 9,95/month).

*Perspective 1:* Features should work and not brake things. The 
community should be very careful to carry broken features for long time 
if there are no capacities to fix. Enduser-admins shall not be stuck 
with WSOD or similar. Sites shall not brake when these features are 
activated.

Fair enough.

*P**erspective 2:* Features that work under calculable conditions, but 
where the system requirements are not available on all shared hosting 
need either proper and visible warnings or checks and these features 
shall not be removed, cause a lot of projects or businesses rely on them.

_Suggested solution for __*Packages*__:_

Step1: I check, wether Packages works at all-inkl.com. If it works 
there, it is not broken and works on decent shared hosting and dedicated 
host with proper setup.
If it *does not* work, I report and ask for assistance or further 
enlightenment.

Step2: I test the suggested manual installation from Marc on my cheap 
non-ssh host.
If it *does not* work, I report and ask for assistance or further 
enlightenment.

Step 3:
If both, S1 and S2 *do* work, I add more information to the 
documentation https://doc.tiki.org/Packages

Step4:
Then we have to find out what situation causes the WSOD and find a way 
to replace WSOD with an appropriate error message + a toggle button to 
switch the feature off + a link to the documentation and/or the manual 
installation page https://packages.tiki.org

For step 4 I will need assistance as A. I am still not a coder and B. I 
learned svn commits, but not yet git (sorry, I will do so soon).

Once Packages is resolved we'll have a look at Fitness Check.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would that be an agreeable way to get further on the issue?

Best regards,
Torsten

Am 19.02.21 um 23:03 schrieb [email protected]:
> Below
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2021 22:50:24 +0200 Tiki developers 
> [email protected] said
>
>> Hi Marc,
>> thank you for sharing your point of view and your suggestions (I did 
>> try the
>> manual install via command line per the Composer site, lots of error
>> messages, but will look over again in case I did not understand the
>> instructions).
>
> That is not what I am referring to. I am talking about the FTP method 
> that was made because not everyone has SSH. It's documented here:
> https://packages.tiki.org/
>
> I doubt the web interface of Packages can work if the CLI version has 
> an issue on your platform.
>
> Ok my 3 platforms, Packages work fine on the CLI and web interface.
>
>> Since the introduction of 'Packages' (Jan. 2018), I have consistently 
>> had
>> issues with this Feature on all my sites (all on shared hosting), that's
>> close to 3 years now (since I did not upgrade until at least mid 2018).
>> My biggest issue is with pdf printing.
>> If not removed, than Packages should be labeled an 'Experimental' 
>> Feature
>
> Perhaps for 18.x but not 21.x
>
> Experimental would be if we expect major upcoming breaking changes, or 
> no intention to fix bugs. In this case:
>
> 1- While it was shaky when it first came out, I have seen it working 
> perhaps 100 times in 21.x+, with 3 operating systems. Including 
> without using root.
>
> 2- I noticed some issues on upgrades from Tiki Manager (that Packages 
> were not automatically upgraded after a Tiki upgrade). It required 
> user some extra clicks to upgrade Packages. This will be solved as 
> upgrading a Tiki should upgrade Packages.
>
> 3- The feature is pretty much complete, and no breaking changes are 
> expected.
>
> 4- If some people have problems on some platforms, merge requests will 
> be accepted.
>
>
>> and at a bare minimum, some type of basic pdf printing should be 
>> added to
>> Tiki so that when a user installs a new instance they do not have to do
>> anything other than check the box to activate the Feature and proceed 
>> to set
>> up basic settings (paper size, single/dual side printing, etc.).
>
>
> "Basic PDF printing should be added"
>
> It took a few hundred hours to test and compare options, before 
> settling on mPDF:
> https://dev.tiki.org/Online-Publishing-House---Output-formats
>
> And we have invested several hundred hours in the mPDF integration. 
> And there are still many things we want to improve.
> https://doc.tiki.org/mPDF
>
> So adding another option is at least a few hundred hours of work.
>
> 1- Who is going to code that?
> 2- Who is going to maintain that?
> 3- Who is going to document that?
>
> That would add more complexity and work to the Tiki project on the 
> long term. It would fragment the community between two implementations.
>
> How can you possibly imagine that someone will be motivated to code or 
> fund the coding of a duplicate external library with fewer features?
>
> That is an "unsustainable strategy" (A term you used in another thread)
>
> It's one to two orders of magnitude less work to just make mPDF work 
> for your platform. You need 5 to 20 hours of an appropriately skilled 
> developer.
>
>
>> Outside of
>> printing, none of the 'add-ons' in Packages are 'essential', so no 
>> big deal,
>> I will consider this a 'developer' feature, best for me not to go 
>> there for
>> the time being (I'll just use www.draw.io ).
>> When I settle in with a new developer team, I'll re-visit Packages and
>> provide feedback.
>
> I think each developer hour will save you at least 10 hours.
>
> Best regards.
>
> Marc
>
>> br, Mike
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 9:38 PM < [email protected] > wrote: Mike, 
>> Removing Tiki Packages would be very disruptive to all the community 
>> members
>> that are using it. I use that feature on dozens of sites, and it 
>> works fine. I suggest you find a developer to work with you and 
>> figure out why it's not
>> working for you. Please note that there is a web-based option and the
>> documented manual install fallback. Once you figure it out, please add a
>> better error message for unsupported platforms. Best regards, Marc On 
>> Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:05:11 +0200 Tiki developers
>> [email protected] said > Hi Gary, > > yes, the 
>> option Errors, under Metris is also available in my cPanel - just, > 
>> as i mentioned in the previous email, it only list two errors from 
>> way back > in October but the Packages errors are from much more 
>> recent. > > I guess one direction would be to somehow make sure this 
>> could not happen in > installations for end users (e.g. have to do a 
>> clean install to resolve all > issues) - however, as Victor points 
>> out, it's not that easy. > > So, the smarter choice would be to  
>> remove the Packages Feature completely
>> > > for now, continue working on it slowly, than once it's pretty 
>> well tested and
>> > > fairly bulltet proof, add it back. > > br, > Mike > > On Thu, Feb 
>> 18, 2021 at 3:34 PM Gary Cunningham-Lee < > gary_c-39LOpZwlz1/[email protected] 
>> > wrote: > > Hi, > At a hosted site of mine, in cPanel there's a 
>> "Metrics" heading, >      and under that there's an "Errors" 
>> icon/link that leads to a page >      with "Latest web server error 
>> log messages" (this is the Apache >      error log) and "Latest 
>> suexec error log messages". Are these what > you're looking for? 
>> There's a doc linked to from that page at > 
>> https://docs.cpanel.net/cpanel/metrics/errors/ . Maybe this >      
>> arrangement is different for other versions of cPanel. > > -- Gary > 
>> > On 2/18/2021 7:08 PM, Michael Finko >      wrote: > > Hi Jonny, > > 
>> I found some documentation about cPanel and getting the >          
>> apache error log here  > 
>> https://docs.cpanel.net/knowledge-base/cpanel-product/the-cpanel-log-files/ 
>> > so I tried this in the command line: > > var/log/apache2/error_log 
>> > > unfortunately, it says 'no such file or directory.'  I >          
>> believe I entered the correct path, but maybe not.  Maybe a > 
>> different command like is better? > > I also checked a feature called 
>> 'Errors' (in cPanel under > 'Metrics') but there was just two error 
>> messages from last >         October, and these 'Packages' errors are 
>> more recent > > Did the screenshots of the command line errors when 
>> trying >          to install Composer provide any clues?  it lists 
>> many errors >          there. > > One message that I thought odd, was 
>> listed directly in the > Packages GUI (Control Panel), 
>> 'a.Farkas/html5shiv is invalid, >          it should not contain 
>> upper case characters' (and highlighted >          in red on the 
>> command line screenshots I attached above) > > Thanks, > Mike > > On 
>> Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 12:44 >          PM Jonny Bradley via 
>> TikiWiki-devel < > [email protected] > >          
>> wrote: > > It seems to work on 21.x locally for me, and did on other 
>> >          21.x's recently, so it's probably a local setup issue for 
>> you.
>> >
>> >          Can you get to the apache error log? WSoD usually ends up 
>> with
>> >
>> >          a clue in the error log... > jb > > On 15 Feb 2021, at 
>> 06:04, Gary Cunningham-Lee < gary_c-39LOpZwlz1/[email protected] >
>> > >          wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Apparently this isn't 
>> affecting trunk, as a few days ago >          I was able to install 
>> the mPDF package on my localhost master >          branch with no 
>> problems, and tiki-check.php works as expected.
>> >
>> > > > > -- Gary > > > > On 2/15/2021 11:14 AM, Torsten Fabricius via 
>> >          TikiWiki-devel wrote: > >> Hi Devs, > >> > >> I am 
>> starting to get back into Tiki work (I am not a > coder) and 
>> currently I am on a shared host with mariadb and >          without 
>> shell access. > >> So currently I have to download Tiki and to 
>> install >          manually. I typically use the latest Tiki in this 
>> case. > >> > >> It is 1 month now since I did read about the problems 
>> >          with Packages the first time recently I did install a few 
>> Tiki
>> >
>> >          21.4 on my host to start with a few little projects. > >> 
>> At the point when I start the Packages feature to get >          any 
>> of the cool features like mpdf or other, I get the WSOD >          
>> blank page and cannot continue with that part ... very sad. > >> > >> 
>> As far as I understand, the problem occurs in several >          Tiki 
>> versions and in several if not all server setups, so I >          
>> think this is kind of a severe problem. > >> First thing: > >> Many 
>> thanks to everybody who is contributing to solve >          the 
>> problem. > >> Second: > >> What can I do as a non-coder with 
>> literally no >          financial budget to help solving the problem? 
>> > >> Third: > >> Is it a problem with original Tiki code, or is it a 
>> > Composer problem? Does it occur on all servers or just under >      
>>     specific conditions? > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Torsten > >> > 
>> >> > >> > >> Am 14.01.21 um 11:32 schrieb Michael Finko: > >>> Hi 
>> devs, > >>> > >>> So  I touched 'Packages' (big mistake) because it 
>> >          was saying problems with 3 of the installed packages 
>> (mPDF, >          Diagrams and one more, maybe Faker), now  I can't 
>> access >          'Packages' via the Control Panel (blank white screen).
>> >Before >          that happened, I pushed all the available buttons 
>> like >          Diagnose and Re-install Composer.  Tried uninstalling 
>> mPDF
>> >and >          reinstalling - uninstall worked but didn't get to 
>> reinstall >          before Packages completely stopped working. > 
>> >>> > >>> Also when i run the Fitness Check, I get a blank >          
>> white screen with this error message: > >>> > >>> Fatal error: 
>> Uncaught Error: Call to undefined > method >
>> >Symfony\Component\Process\Process::inheritEnvironmentVariables() >  
>>         in /home/mike7137/ > 
>> agilitynocode.com/lib/core/Tiki/Package/ComposerCli.php:213 Stack 
>> trace: #0 > /home/mike7137/ 
>> agilitynocode.com/lib/core/Tiki/Package/ComposerCli.php(297) > : >    
>>       Tiki\Package\ComposerCli->getPhpPath() #1 /home/mike7137/ > 
>> agilitynocode.com/lib/core/Tiki/Package/ComposerCli.php(260) : >      
>>     Tiki\Package\ComposerCli->execComposer(Array) #2 >          
>> /home/mike7137/ > 
>> agilitynocode.com/lib/core/Tiki/Package/ComposerCli.php(340) : >      
>>     Tiki\Package\ComposerCli->canExecuteComposer() #3 >          
>> /home/mike7137/ > 
>> agilitynocode.com/lib/core/Tiki/Package/ComposerCli.php(387) : >      
>>     Tiki\Package\ComposerCli->execShow() #4 /home/mike7137/ > 
>> agilitynocode.com/lib/core/Tiki/Package/ComposerManager.php(141) : > 
>> Tiki\Package\ComposerCli->getListOfPackagesFromConfig() #5 >          
>> /home/mike7137/ agilitynocode.com/tiki-check.php(1832) : > 
>> Tiki\Package\ComposerManager->getInstalled() #6 {main} >         
>> thrown in /home/mike7137/ > 
>> agilitynocode.com/lib/core/Tiki/Package/ComposerCli.php on line 213 > 
>> >>> > >>> I'll run the Tiki installer to see if that helps >          
>> - just frankly, am very scared as I have about  95% of my > 
>> presentation done for FOSDEM (all on wiki pages) and am ready >      
>>     to start recording because it needs to be submitted by >          
>> tomorrow, so very little time for recording, let alone >          
>> diagnosing all kinds of issues that could come up... > >>> > >>> I 
>> would have liked to speak positively about both > Tiki Server Fitness 
>> check and Packages, but honestly, since >          Tiki 18, they have 
>> always been problematic for me, as a >          non-server 
>> specialist.  Though, since 'Packages' is such a >          complex 
>> and fragile 'beast' (like Elastic) it's understandable
>> >
>> >          - however, the big difference is that I can choose to run 
>> >          'MySQL Full Text Search vs. Elastic' but I don't have the 
>> same
>> >
>> >          option with Packages, and mPDF and Diagrams are there, two 
>> >          very important features (well, at least mPDF, as I can 
>> still >          use Draw.io). > >>> > >>> I'm definitely looking 
>> forward to Brendan's >          improvements to the Server Fitness 
>> check (keep in mind both >          VPS and Shared Hosting and 
>> stability issues, please).  Is >          anyone working on making 
>> 'Packages' more stable (for Shared > Hosting)? > >>> > >>> Wish me 
>> luck! 🙂 > >>> Mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> 
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