Re: [Tiki-devel] The default look of tables

Hi, Gary!

Thank you for your informative reply.

I didn't know that there's a science made about table designs. 

The horizontal-borders-only-style isn't to my taste. I don't feel vertical
lines as being visual noise. I find it somewhat unclear without. And I don't
like it when the information is spread horizontally over the whole width,
when there's room left. I want it to take only as much space as it takes.
But, of course you're right, it's a matter of taste. 

I didn't know that there's that much thought in the table design in Tiki. It
looked ad-hoc to me.

After you've explained it, I don't stand by my request to change the default
table design.

Cheers,
Volker


Am Freitag, dem 03.05.2024 um 12:56 +0900 schrieb Gary Cunningham-Lee:
> Hi Volker,
> What "looks good" of course is in the eye of the beholder, as the saying
> goes. It seems that, over time, the idea of tables not necessarily having
> borders, or a complete set of borders, has become more popular. For
> example, this article "40 Best CSS Table Templates For Creating Appealing
> Tables 2024" (https://uicookies.com/css-table-templates/) shows a number
> of table designs. Some have the traditional bordered appearance, but more
> have either only horizontal borders or alternating row background colors,
> or no border or background color distinctions at all. Other image searches
> for "web design tables" turn up similar results.
> This article -
> https://medium.com/design-with-figma/the-ultimate-guide-to-designing-data-tables-7db29713a85a
> - breaks down visual styles of tables this way: 
> "Grid: Including both horizontal and vertical lines provides the most
> separation between data points, but the excess visual noise can be
> distracting. This spreadsheet-style is recommended for dense, data heavy
> tables. 
> "Horizontal Lines: Only showing horizontal lines reduces the visual noise
> of a full grid. This style includes plenty of white space while still
> helping the user keep their place while reading. This style is the most
> common and recommended for all data set sizes.
> "Zebra Stripes: Alternating different color backgrounds for each row is
> another good way to help users keep their place while reading. This style
> is recommended for larger data sets where the alternating pattern will be
> clear and not cause confusion that a particular row is highlighted."
> This seems to be typical of the thinking about the table design that
> Bootstrap produces, and Tiki uses. By default, the tables don't have grid-
> like borders for the reason the Medium.com article states. My personal
> opinion is that tables with complete borders look rather dated and overly
> "spreadsheet-looking" when used for the presentation of general
> information but are good in the context of heavy data presentation.
> In the end, not everyone will be pleased with the default, whichever way
> it goes regarding borders, etc., and so some custom CSS might be needed to
> suit the particular Tiki site.
> -- Gary
>     
> On 5/2/2024 4:34 PM, Volker Wysk wrote:
>  
> > Hi.
> > 
> > Tables in wiki pages, using the Tiki default style sheet, don't look good at
> > all. There are no borders. Sure, this can be improved with a custom style
> > sheet. 
> > 
> > Configurability is good. But you shouldn't be *forced* to configure. There
> > should be a reasonable default. 
> > 
> > So I ask you, the Tiki team, to add the following to Tiki's default style
> > sheet. It will draw borders in tables.
> > 
> > table
> > {
> >     margin: 0 0 0 0;
> >     border-collapse: collapse;
> >     width: auto;
> > }
> > 
> > th, td
> > {
> >     padding: 0.25em 0.5em 0.25em 0.5em;
> >     border: 1px solid tan;
> > }
> > 
> > td p {
> >     margin: 0;
> >     padding: 0;
> > }
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Volker
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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