RE: Re: RE: TOAD vs PLSQL Developer vs SQL Developer

The pdf has been uploaded to the Files section of the Board, if you wish to access it.

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Lerch
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 8:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [toad] Re: RE: TOAD vs PLSQL Developer vs SQL Developer




The Top Five Reasons to Choose Toad Over SQL Developer

But in order to read it you have to create a "Quest.com account!"

That's like being forced to open a charge card just to go window shopping at a store.  And we're trying to draw people away from SQL Developer?

Just.....bad.

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Donna Buskirk
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 4:06 AM
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [toad] Re: RE: TOAD vs PLSQL Developer vs SQL Developer



Sanjay,
This technical brief should help. There are many more than 5 reasons, as you know, but these "Top Five Reasons to Choose Toad over SQL Developer" are powerful.

http://www.quest.com/techbrief/the-top-five-reasons-to-choose-toad-over-sql-developer812316.aspx

Thank you for advocating for Toad. The time/money/quality savings is significant.

Good Luck!
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 29, 2012, at 12:08 AM, "Sanjay N Vadher" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


Message from: sanjayvadher


Hi Jeff,

Our Company decided to replace TOAD with freeware sql developer, we need some strong reason & functionality\features which sql developer doesnt have but TOAD have. could you plesae provide me such features\functionality which TOAD have and sql developer doesnt.

I searched in google but not able to find enough material to convince my manager\management which can give proper justification for my claim to use only TOAD not other freeware softwares...


you can mail me on [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

plese help.

Thanks
Sanjay

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Historical Messages


Author: Sanjay N Vadher
Date: Tue Feb 28 21:34:59 PST 2012
Hi Jeff,

Our Company decided to replace TOAD with freeware sql developer, we need some strong reason & functionality\features which sql developer doesnt have but TOAD have. could you plesae provide me such features\functionality which TOAD have and sql developer doesnt.

I searched in google but not able to find enough material to convince my manager\management which can give proper justification for my claim to use only TOAD not other freeware softwares...


you can mail me on [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

plese help.

Thanks
Sanjay
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Author: Sanjay N Vadher
Date: Tue Feb 28 21:24:41 PST 2012
Hi Jeff,

Our Company decided to replace TOAD with freeware sql developer, we need some strong reason & functionality\features which sql developer doesnt have but TOAD have. could you plesae provide me such features\functionality which TOAD have and sql developer doesnt.

I searched in google but not able to find enough material to convince my manager\management which can give proper justification for my claim to use only TOAD not other freeware softwares...


plese help.

Thanks
Sanjay
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Author: Richard Squires
Date: Sun Jan 23 16:54:52 PST 2011
This is handy:

http://www.toadworld.com/Portals/0/ToadTechPapers/Why%20Toad.pdf

Now if someone was to compare PLSQL Developer, SQL Developer or any other tools with this handy list that would be mighty handy.  Unfortunately my ship has set sail, let's see if we reach shore.
Message was edited by: R Squires
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Author: John Pocknell
Date: Thu Jan 20 07:29:08 PST 2011
Richard, If you need any kind of ROI stuff, we have that too (ROI calculator, business case doc, etc). Please drop me an email personally. John
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Author: Rich Jesse
Date: Thu Jan 20 07:11:06 PST 2011
> I had the "ribbet" turned on of course. :) Later that > day I was told I could get 2 copies of Toad. LOL! I think that was everyone's favorite new feature when I got licenses here. :) Secondarily, being able to customize the GUI for my BAs is really huge. They don't need and don't want to see anything but tables and indexes in the SB. Features like that, which on the surface seem only to cater to the "my" trend in software these days, can have real time savings for us. They're also interested in the beta's ability to customize the schema lists in the SB. Our dev DB has almost 62000 objects -- why should my team need to wade through all of that just to see what they need? Toad let's 'em, and it's getting even better. I'm picky. Picky, picky, picky. I took 6 months to research what TV I wanted. Nearly as long to find the best Editor font. There's a reason I've been using Toad since pre-Quest v4 days -- It's Simply The Best(tm). [queue lame Tina Turner soundover here] I'll stop now before someone tells me to take it to the Toad Advocacy list. Rich -- [TeamT] Disclaimer: Clay Matthews was just issued his 2011 Bear Tag.
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Author: Deborah Flad
Date: Thu Jan 20 04:02:45 PST 2011
Few years ago I had to justify desire for Toad w/DBA module. Were already paying for Oracle OEM and PL/SQL Developer and O-SQL-Devel was available. Did some routine work using all three and why each was ranked 1(best)..3(worse). Explained how excellent interaction was with Quest Support and Toad Community. Still cost of buying "something we already had" was biggest concern of upper mgmt so I got a "no". Then using PL/SQL Devel late one day I was working with MLogs and MViews as part of a Application/DB upgrade on reporting db. PL/SQL removed more than expected, and our prod database got locked up. Took some time to wiggle everything back(2000+ tables) during which many users were NOT happy having a unusable prod system. Upper Mgmt appeared at my door after all was fixed and explanation of cause-effect-fix was written up and shared. She had one question: Would Toad have done the same thing? My answer as "no" and I opened up Toad to show them a few things. I had the "ribbet" turned on of course. J Later that day I was told I could get 2 copies of Toad.
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Author: Gregory Liss
Date: Thu Jan 20 02:25:20 PST 2011
Back in the dark ages when I was a Toad user instead of a Toad developer, I had to do that cost justification as well. I told the bean counters that Toad saved me x hours of time per week. Take x times my billing rate. If that number is more than the cost of Toad then the ROI is there. In my case, I could show that Toad saved the company it's cost in around 6 weeks. Time is money. On Jan 20, 2011, at 3:25 AM, "Dunbar, Norman (Capgemini)" wrote: > Rich, > >>> One was "F8 rocks! > F8 - thanks. I have been looking for that all week! I resorted to ALT-UP > and ALT-DOWN in the MOE to walk through my history looking for the > command I wanted. Could I find it in the menus? No. > > Now of course, I can easily find it under View->SQL Command > Recall->History. It must have been hiding from me! > > > Cheers, > Norm. [TeamT] > > > Information in this message may be confidential and may be legally privileged. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify the sender immediately, delete it and do not copy it to anyone else. > > We have checked this email and its attachments for viruses. But you should still check any attachment before opening it. > We may have to make this message and any reply to it public if asked to under the Freedom of Information Act, Data Protection Act or for litigation. Email messages and attachments sent to or from any Environment Agency address may also be accessed by someone other than the sender or recipient, for business purposes. > > If we have sent you information and you wish to use it please read our terms and conditions which you can get by calling us on 08708 506 506. Find out more about the Environment Agency at www.environment-agency.gov.uk<http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk> > > >
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Author: Norman Dunbar
Date: Thu Jan 20 00:25:19 PST 2011
Rich, >> One was "F8 rocks! F8 - thanks. I have been looking for that all week! I resorted to ALT-UP and ALT-DOWN in the MOE to walk through my history looking for the command I wanted. Could I find it in the menus? No. Now of course, I can easily find it under View->SQL Command Recall->History. It must have been hiding from me! Cheers, Norm. [TeamT] Information in this message may be confidential and may be legally privileged. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify the sender immediately, delete it and do not copy it to anyone else. We have checked this email and its attachments for viruses. But you should still check any attachment before opening it. We may have to make this message and any reply to it public if asked to under the Freedom of Information Act, Data Protection Act or for litigation. Email messages and attachments sent to or from any Environment Agency address may also be accessed by someone other than the sender or recipient, for business purposes. If we have sent you information and you wish to use it please read our terms and conditions which you can get by calling us on 08708 506 506. Find out more about the Environment Agency at www.environment-agency.gov.uk<http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk>
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Author: Norman Dunbar
Date: Thu Jan 20 00:17:41 PST 2011
Morning Bert, >> Just a thought to help those who have to make such an >> argument. I'll bet most have not pitched MS Office to use >> Open Office or Lotus Symphony (two free office clones). I have! ;-) Me: Why don't we use Open Office instead of MS Office? Think of the money we could save. Them: We have to use Office because everyone else does. Me: Open Office can read and write MS Office files better than MS Office can. Them: We have to use Office because ........... Them: ........... it's Microsoft. Me: Face/palm! >> I'll bet that most doing .Net work are probably using MS >> Visual Studio and not Sharp Develop, C Sharp Studio nor Mono >> Develop. Because it's Microsoft! I have, many years ago, attempted to evaluate SQL Developer (aka Raptor at that time) for a couple of versions for this place. It failed badly. The one major problem I had with it, like Rich discovered, was it's slowness and the need to re-execute the query to export the results. However, the biggie for me, at the time, was EXPLAIN PLAN - I had a query that took hours to run so I decided to see what SQL-D could make of it. Well, explain plan actually executed the query and hung my desktop for hours. :-( I'm sure it's a lot better now and we do have it as "authorised" software for use by all and sundry, but as far as I know, no-body uses it here. People without Toad licenses use FreeToad or SQL*Plus rather that SQL-Developer. I wonder why? Cheers, Norm. [TeamT] Information in this message may be confidential and may be legally privileged. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify the sender immediately, delete it and do not copy it to anyone else. We have checked this email and its attachments for viruses. But you should still check any attachment before opening it. We may have to make this message and any reply to it public if asked to under the Freedom of Information Act, Data Protection Act or for litigation. Email messages and attachments sent to or from any Environment Agency address may also be accessed by someone other than the sender or recipient, for business purposes. If we have sent you information and you wish to use it please read our terms and conditions which you can get by calling us on 08708 506 506. Find out more about the Environment Agency at www.environment-agency.gov.uk<http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk>
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Author: Norman Dunbar
Date: Thu Jan 20 00:04:56 PST 2011
Morning (UK time) all, Basically "what Rich said" along with "what Bert said". But emphasis on "the developers" and "the users" on these lists. I'd be lost without them. If cost is a problem, don't forget FreeToad. Also, Jonathan Gennick once wrote a neat little piece in Oracle Mag, you can read it online at http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/issue-archive/2006/06-may/o36sql-08268 5.html, the "fun" starts about one page down at "The Pressure". As an aside or two, I would not be using the Fill_Pivot procedure detailed in the article - not if I wanted to keep my cache decent, plus at 11:56 he heads out the door without logging out of the database or locking his computer against misuse. Tut tut! ;-) I replied with this: http://www.freelists.org/post/oracle-l/J-Gennicks-SQL-Developer-write-up -in-Oracle-Mag The above is based on a real life experience with SQL Developer (aka Toad killer!) and it's beta release Raptor. Well, Toad is still around! Declaration of interest: I'm TeamT. That's all, I don't get paid to say nice things about Toad. Cheers, Norm. [TeamT] PS. Jonathan liked my "rant" so much, he sent me a signed copy of one of his books. :-) PPS. Gravity sucks. Information in this message may be confidential and may be legally privileged. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify the sender immediately, delete it and do not copy it to anyone else. We have checked this email and its attachments for viruses. But you should still check any attachment before opening it. We may have to make this message and any reply to it public if asked to under the Freedom of Information Act, Data Protection Act or for litigation. Email messages and attachments sent to or from any Environment Agency address may also be accessed by someone other than the sender or recipient, for business purposes. If we have sent you information and you wish to use it please read our terms and conditions which you can get by calling us on 08708 506 506. Find out more about the Environment Agency at www.environment-agency.gov.uk<http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk>
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Author: Rich Jesse
Date: Wed Jan 19 21:20:00 PST 2011
> Message from: R Squires > >  I'd live without it, life just wouldn't be so much fun. The > difficulty is that in order to "Make the case that you do x, y and z > with TOAD every day" I would also need to show how I couldn't do > that using one of the other alternatives. It's very hard to quantify > "it's just easier" in terms that wouldn't baffle the > people that make the money decisions. > > I'll let you know how I go.  :) I can't speak to PLSQL-D, but I can to SQL-D: I use a lot of the various pieces of Toad for DBA work, PL/SQL and ad-hoc querying. There was easy justification for my license based on my previous work experience as well as my proven relationship with the Toad Team (that little "TeamT" thing). My business analysts (well, OK, they're not really "mine" per se) use only ad-hoc SQLs and a GUI browser for table definitions and data. For three years, they were stuck with the free SQL Duhveloper because that's all I could justify based on their usage -- why would anyone need a full-blown Toad for just that? 1) The Java tool routinely blew chunks all over the place for us, causing all manner of odd behavior in SQL-D. 2) Inflexible GUI. We're SQL-D -- you'll like the way we do things because it must be the most efficient and user-friendly way possible. Never mind you folks with 13000 tables and 21000 indexes! 3) BA runs a query in SQL-D and it takes 20 minutes. Yay! Let's just save off those results....why is it frozen up now? What do you mean it's RERUNNING THE QUERY???!?? NOOOOOO! THOSE RESULTS WON'T BE THE SAME FOR MY TIME-BASED QUERY!!!! Yes, sad but true. Let's just send all of our queries to the DBA so he can run them in Toad because it's tons faster and accurate. Yay for the DBA... 4) Time for solo DBA to manage 7 installs of that tool when I should be spending that time castigating people for running said ad-hoc SQLs instead. See also point #1 again. The buy in was when my boss had the most trouble with SQL-D. That made Toad an easy sell to our CIO. Had the licenses the next day. :) I asked for feedback after an hour long hands-on training session and giving them a week to use Toad. One was "F8 rocks! MUCH better than the way [SQL-D] does it!", which then prompted others to try it out -- a few more came to the same conclusion. One didn't like the layout of the SB. So we changed it! And to be fair, one didn't care which tool they used because they hardly needed to query our Oracle DBs. (I made a special note about that guy...) I'm lucky to work for a place that provides the tools we need to do our jobs in the "best" way we can. To that end, Toad is a perfect fit. But since my beer's gone, I'm shutting up now. Enjoy! Rich -- [TeamT] Disclaimer: I'm not a paid shill for the wonderful Toad for Oracle product.
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Author: Richard Squires
Date: Wed Jan 19 19:57:46 PST 2011
 I'd live without it, life just wouldn't be so much fun. The difficulty is that in order to "Make the case that you do x, y and z with TOAD every day" I would also need to show how I couldn't do that using one of the other alternatives. It's very hard to quantify "it's just easier" in terms that wouldn't baffle the people that make the money decisions.

I'll let you know how I go.  :)

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Author: Bert Scalzo
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:43:10 PST 2011
Just a thought to help those who have to make such an argument. I'll bet most have not pitched MS Office to use Open Office or Lotus Symphony (two free office clones). And I'll bet that most doing .Net work are probably using MS Visual Studio and not Sharp Develop, C Sharp Studio nor Mono Develop. The point being that we all routinely pay for tools we need to do our jobs - and justify the expense many different ways. Think of TOAD the same way. Make the case that you do x, y and z with TOAD every day and thus cannot live without it. That's probably more relevant than what we might do above and beyond those other tools and that you might not use .....
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Author: Jeff Smith
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:47:35 PST 2011
No worries, and I always assume folks are American until they say otherwise, so we're even.
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Author: Richard Squires
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:47:35 PST 2011
Ooops, should point out I'm working in Aussie Dollars.

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Author: Jeff Smith
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:20:06 PST 2011
I might be able to help you with some documentation if you want to email me personally. [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Also, the base edition of Toad is a bit less than $1,000, not more than that.
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Author: Richard Squires
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:20:06 PST 2011
I'm sure this is a question many of you will have been asked over time and I'm once again being asked to justify the cost of Base TOAD ($1000+) over PLSQL Developer ($200) over Oracle's SQL Developer (Free).

Currently I use TOAD for 95% of my day to day development - Schema Browser and SQL and PLSQL in the SQL Editor.  But I do use PLSQL Developer for its Test Window and its Debugger as TOAD either doesn't do it (the Test Window) or doesn't do it as well (the Debugger...although I've not been back to the TOAD debugger for a while so maybe its more stable now).  And I use SQL Developer because I need to get familiar with it because eventually it's going to replace TOAD (and it didn't crash like my TOAD session did when I queried a Queue Table with an XML Type in it which I think has been fixed in a more recent version of TOAD hence why I am trying to justify upgrading).

So, has anyone produced a document recently that they could share?  Does Quest have their own comparison chart of features not included in other products, because people are going to be asked more and more why we would spend 10s thousands of dollars on TOAD when Oracle has their own free version.

Cheers

Richard

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