Re: Is Swixml a rich (or smart) client?

I got a question for Kate/Wolf, since ya'll know about
my plugin engine project. I am working (rather slowly
due to time) on a pluggable UI Framework. Initially it
will have a core set of plugins that provide a menuing
capability. Using extension points, other plugins add
menu items and toolbar buttons through extensions via
the plugin.xml file of each plugin. They don't
hard-code them using Swing code. This is sort of like
swixml, only I dont wish to copy swixml. My intent is
to provide a "docking" place for plugins to add
clickable links (menu items, toolbar buttons, etc)
that can then activate their plugin. Each plugin may
provide their own dialog UI. This is where my question
comes in.

I am wondering if a plugin could make use of swixml to
build its dialog, which is snapped in to my UI
Framework at a given extension point. In other words,
a plugin would have access to the swixml library
somehow (most likely via an application classpath so
more than one plugin can use it without each having to
distribute the swixml library) and be able to use it
to generate dialogs and such, but they wouldn't use it
to add menu items or toolbar buttons.

Is something like this possible? I think it should be,
and it may be great to package the swixml library and
UI RAD editor to build UI plugins rapidly. It still
wont help for some things like help system that may
use JavaHelp or HTML viewer, but it should help in
other areas.

Thanks.

--- Frank Meissner <[email protected]> wrote:
> karim virgil wrote:
> >  Hi everybody,
> > I post this message because I would like to have
> some advices from the
> > Swixml communauty.
> >  
> > Currently,  I'm doing some research on the rich
> (smart) client domain because
> > I'll like to develop an application 
> > that can be deployed and updated easily but more
> user-friendly than the
> > HTML.
> >  
> > Naturally, I found the Mozilla + XUL (and
> javascript) solution very attractive
> > because it meets my needs 
> > completely. There is only one drawback : This
> solution obliges the user
> > to use Mozilla but I can't impose this 
> > constraint to him.
> >  
> > So, I was looking for another solution and I found
> this Internet Site :
> > http://xul.sourceforge.net/counter.html
> > 
> >  
> > As far as I'm concerned, I think that swixml won
> this challenge because
> > the esthetics of the interface is 
> > pleasant and this in few lines of code.
> >  
> > After, I found the Web journal of Wolf Paulus
> (http://www.carlsbadcubes.com/blog/index.html) 
> where
> > it's 
> > written that Mr Galbraith said at the San Diego
> Software Symposium that
> > he thought SwixML is the most mature 
> > XUL/Swing offering.
> >  
> > 
> > After doing some research on how Swixml works, I
> found that the xml file
> > that describe the UI is interpreted by 
> > the SwingEngine initialised in a .java file and
> launched by a JVM. 
> > 
> > Can we consider that Swixml really acts like a
> rich client?
> > 
> > In other words, is swixml a rich client or "only"
> a way to describe
> > swing interface in xml ?
> > 
> > What are the advantages to create an UI using XML
> rather than a hard coded
> > one?
> 
> IMHO the biggest advantage is the separation of GUI
> and business logic. 
> You can
> a) have very different GUIs serving the same purpose
> but looking totally 
> different
> b) may have customer specific GUI files which may
> show more ore less 
> available business logic to the customer (customer
> pays more and sees more)
> c) design in rapid prototype way, e.g. have a
> business logic skeleton 
> which is used by your GUI e.g. in a session with
> your customer until the 
> customer is satisfied
> d) design your GUI in a more "natural" way (at least
> IMHO) because if 
> you have a complicated GridBagLayout with a lot of
> constraints, insets 
> and the whole bunch of glue you easily get lost
> 
> >  
> > What I think is that swixml can't be considered as
> a smart client alone
> > but It really makes the deal if it's 
> > combined to Java Web Start (so Java Web Start +
> swixml.jar == mozilla browser
> > behaviour with XUL).
> 
> No, that would do mozilla less a favour. Mozilla
> IMHO relies on its GUI 
> glueing its business logic with javascript, which
> is'nt easily doable 
> with swixml. Even some of the business logic is
> realized through 
> javascript in mozilla. This is not the intention of
> swixml. IMHO swixml 
> goes well if you keep the business logic somewhat
> isolated: have 
> components take care of themself, do a job, nothing
> more, nothing less. 
> Then access these components through the swixml-GUI
> like Actions. Thus, 
> your backend-logic (do'nt know if this is the right
> name) provides basic 
> services (network connection, data sources, ...),
> Actions (menu-items, 
> buttons, ...) do the business-logic and glue the
> backend components. And 
> swixml does the GUI ;)
> 
> > I hope that this message will not be perceived as
> a criticism of swixml
> > because it is absolutely not my intention.
> 
> Why should it? Each of the swixml-users has its own
> purpose in mind if 
> she/he decided to use swixml. You *may* use it but
> are unsure about its 
> nature.
> 
> > I only wish to have your opinion on the interest
> to use swixml whereas
> > I can also create a  rich client by using 
> > swing directly and deploy it with Java Web Start. 
> 
> Deployment through webstart should'nt be a problem.
> GUI creation "the 
> hard way" is IMHO a bad idea, JWS or not ;) I rarely
> choose a hard coded 
> GUI anymore
> 
> 
> Frank
> 
> >  
> > thank you 
> >  
> > ps:sorry if my english isn't perfect ;-)
> > 
> > Plus simple, plus fiable, plus rapide : découvrez
> le nouveau Caramail - http://www.caramail.lycos.fr
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>
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> > 
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> >
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> 
> 
> 
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