Re: State of Turnkey
"Kevin Leonard" <kl_j76-/[email protected]> Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:05:38 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.emulators.turnkey-mvs |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
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Simon:
> I wouldn't exactly call myself an expert.
Remember, everything is relative.
> but being me, I couldn't help but delve a bit deeper into how the
> whole thing worked. I was the sort of child parents dread, always
> taking things apart to find out how they worked!
Did you have pieces left over when you tried to put things back
together? You'll feel right at home here. A lot of us are like
that.
> "Playing with my toys", is what my other half calls it and there's
> always more important stuff to do!
There'll always be more important stuff to do, if you let it happen
that way. Playing with your toys is cool.
> One of the things on my to do list is to examine the defined
> devices. I want to add more DASD and need to know where I can
> put them.
Phil can speak to this with more authority than I can, but I'll take
a shot at it. Historically, graphic devices and unit record devices
were on channel 0, DASD and more unit record devices were on channels
1, 2 and 3, tape on channel 4, CTC on channels 5 and 6. TK3 update
added more DASD on channels 7 and E, and graphic devices on channel D.
Other channels are currently unused.
DASD on channels 1-3 are split out by type:
x2x reserved for 2311
x3x 2314
x4x 3350
x5x 3330 and 3330-1
x6x 3340
x7x 3375
x8x once 3380, now reserved for VM CMS guest use
x9x once 3390, now reserved for VM CMS guest use
xAx 3380
xBx 3390
xDx reserved for 2305-2
xFx reserved for 2305-1
> 014 does seem like a better place for the JES3 console than up with
> the user terminals. If I find that 014 is defined correctly, I will
> move it.
014 and 016 are defined in the MVS starter system as 3158 displays.
That's what inspired those device numbers. The original TK3 system
didn't have JES3, and when I started working on adding it (originally
for TK4) I didn't know yet what I would like to see for consoles. As
a result, the separately-defined JES3 display console UCBs were an
afterthought.
> I'll have a look at the printer situation. It appears to me that
> in the TK3 update 31E is MLOG and 31F is JESOUT.
It does? I am not seeing printer UCBs for 31E and 31F. It would be
nice, though.
> I have also noticed that there is one tape drive in the config file
> on 420, but JES3IN00 has tape devices declared at 400 thru 40F, so
> I need to check this out and amend accordingly.
There are tape UCBs in the generated TK3UPD system at 400-40F:
d u,tape,offline
IEE450I 03.55.51 UNIT STATUS 369 C
UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE=20
400 3400 401 3400 402 3400 403 3400 404 3400 405 3400 406 3400=20
407 3400 408 3400 409 3400 40A 3400 40B 3400 40C 3400 40D 3400=20
40E 3400 40F 3400
JES3 would complain about split generics if the inish deck definitions
didn't match the actual EDT values, and it doesn't. That why there
are so many printers defined to JES3: not because they are ever
going to be used, but to prevent the split-generic error.
> > I don't know if you've gotten far enough to think about the
> > possibilities of a multi-system JES3 complex. Unfortunately,
> > right now Hercules CTC support isn't robust enough to meet JES3
> > requirements. [...]
>=20
> This is a big shame. It was my intention to run a complex with
> at least two mains. Is the problem with the CTC documented
> anywhere? Do we know if anyone is actively looking at it as
> part of the ongoing development?
The problem with existing Hercules CTC support is that what's
there was written to be the basis for TCP/IP interface devices,
not as a complete 3088 implementation. Fully functional bidirectional
CTC support would require intelligence to manage both ends of the
conversation, maintain status and handle dependent requests. It's
been discussed in development circles from time to time, but nothing
concrete has happened so far. I haven't given up.
--=20
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<p>Simon:<br>
<br>
> I wouldn't exactly call myself an expert.<br>
<br>
Remember, everything is relative.<br>
<br>
> but being me, I couldn't help but delve a bit deeper into how the<br>
> whole thing worked. I was the sort of child parents dread, always<br>
> taking things apart to find out how they worked!<br>
<br>
Did you have pieces left over when you tried to put things back<br>
together? You'll feel right at home here. A lot of us are like<br>
that.<br>
<br>
> "Playing with my toys", is what my other half calls it and there's<br>
> always more important stuff to do!<br>
<br>
There'll always be more important stuff to do, if you let it happen<br>
that way. Playing with your toys is cool.<br>
<br>
> One of the things on my to do list is to examine the defined<br>
> devices. I want to add more DASD and need to know where I can<br>
> put them.<br>
<br>
Phil can speak to this with more authority than I can, but I'll take<br>
a shot at it. Historically, graphic devices and unit record devices<br>
were on channel 0, DASD and more unit record devices were on channels<br>
1, 2 and 3, tape on channel 4, CTC on channels 5 and 6. TK3 update<br>
added more DASD on channels 7 and E, and graphic devices on channel D.<br>
Other channels are currently unused.<br>
<br>
DASD on channels 1-3 are split out by type:<br>
<br>
x2x reserved for 2311<br>
x3x 2314<br>
x4x 3350<br>
x5x 3330 and 3330-1<br>
x6x 3340<br>
x7x 3375<br>
x8x once 3380, now reserved for VM CMS guest use<br>
x9x once 3390, now reserved for VM CMS guest use<br>
xAx 3380<br>
xBx 3390<br>
xDx reserved for 2305-2<br>
xFx reserved for 2305-1<br>
<br>
> 014 does seem like a better place for the JES3 console than up with<br>
> the user terminals. If I find that 014 is defined correctly, I will<br>
> move it.<br>
<br>
014 and 016 are defined in the MVS starter system as 3158 displays.<br>
That's what inspired those device numbers. The original TK3 system<br>
didn't have JES3, and when I started working on adding it (originally<br>
for TK4) I didn't know yet what I would like to see for consoles. As<br>
a result, the separately-defined JES3 display console UCBs were an<br>
afterthought.<br>
<br>
> I'll have a look at the printer situation. It appears to me that<br>
> in the TK3 update 31E is MLOG and 31F is JESOUT.<br>
<br>
It does? I am not seeing printer UCBs for 31E and 31F. It would be<br>
nice, though.<br>
<br>
> I have also noticed that there is one tape drive in the config file<br>
> on 420, but JES3IN00 has tape devices declared at 400 thru 40F, so<br>
> I need to check this out and amend accordingly.<br>
<br>
There are tape UCBs in the generated TK3UPD system at 400-40F:<br>
<br>
d u,tape,offline<br>
IEE450I 03.55.51 UNIT STATUS 369 C<br>
UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE UNIT TYPE <br>
400 3400 401 3400 402 3400 403 3400 404 3400 405 3400 406 3400 <br>
407 3400 408 3400 409 3400 40A 3400 40B 3400 40C 3400 40D 3400 <br>
40E 3400 40F 3400<br>
<br>
JES3 would complain about split generics if the inish deck definitions<br>
didn't match the actual EDT values, and it doesn't. That why there<br>
are so many printers defined to JES3: not because they are ever<br>
going to be used, but to prevent the split-generic error.<br>
<br>
> > I don't know if you've gotten far enough to think about the<br>
> > possibilities of a multi-system JES3 complex. Unfortunately,<br>
> > right now Hercules CTC support isn't robust enough to meet JES3<br>
> > requirements. [...]<br>
> <br>
> This is a big shame. It was my intention to run a complex with<br>
> at least two mains. Is the problem with the CTC documented<br>
> anywhere? Do we know if anyone is actively looking at it as<br>
> part of the ongoing development?<br>
<br>
The problem with existing Hercules CTC support is that what's<br>
there was written to be the basis for TCP/IP interface devices,<br>
not as a complete 3088 implementation. Fully functional bidirectional<br>
CTC support would require intelligence to manage both ends of the<br>
conversation, maintain status and handle dependent requests. It's<br>
been discussed in development circles from time to time, but nothing<br>
concrete has happened so far. I haven't given up.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
</p>
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padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg a {
color: #1E66AE;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->
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