Re: FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider
"Rhuberg,Anthony" <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.encryption.bouncy-castle.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <DM5PR0102MB33661C71899997F9BBF1897280480@DM5PR0102MB3366.prod.exchangelabs.com> |
What do you mean by ‘registered providers’? Thanks ________________________________ From: Eckenfels. Bernd <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 6:07:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider In your case I would put all the sensitive logic to sign and handle keys in a dedicated VM and use it via remote call. That not only solves the class clash but protects your keys much better, with the added benefit of beeing fully compliant with all requirements the FIPS provider has to be actually used compliant. You can even limit admin access to the key store that way. Class loader tricks do not really work well for registered providers since they use the classloader from where they are registered. So it May or may not work. Bernd -- https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seeburger.com&data=02%7C01%7CAnthony.Rhuberg%40Cerner.com%7Ccd7d632532114263e5de08d5dbb18c25%7Cfbc493a80d244454a815f4ca58e8c09d%7C0%7C0%7C636656478089699943&sdata=z5B8tCIZENMnCLRgfZf0jIjpH3AHbKOIqrGupFZmt2s%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________________ From: Rhuberg,Anthony [[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 23:22 To: David Hook; Eckenfels. Bernd; [email protected] Subject: RE: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider Hi, In our web application deployment within Tomcat, the bcprov.jar is loaded by both the common class loader and the web application class loader (both by third party dependencies). Our web application has a requirement to digitally sign a prescription (which is the reason for the FIPS compliant BC Java API). The entire application does not need to be FIPS compliant, just one of many workflows. Is the following a reasonable alternative to avoid the package clash? 1. Stop packaging bc-fips-1.0.1.jar in our web application (WAR) – the bcprov will exist in the common class loader and web application class loader 2. bc-fips-1.0.1.jar on the filesystem C:\fipsmodule 3. Create a URLClassLoader and load bc-fips-1.0.1.jar 4. Load the BouncyCastleFipsProvider class at runtime public static final Provider getProvider() throws … { List<URL> urls = new ArrayList(); for (File f : new File("C:/fipsmodule").listFiles()) { urls.add(f.toURL()); } URLClassLoader classLoader = new URLClassLoader(urls.stream().toArray(URL[]::new), null); Provider provider = (Provider) classLoader .loadClass("org.bouncycastle.jcajce.provider.BouncyCastleFipsProvider").newInstance(); return provider; } public byte[] sign(KeyStore keystore, String data) throws …{ Signature signature = Signature.getInstance(“SHA256withRSA”, getProvider()); signature.initSign((PrivateKey) keystore.getKey(getKeyAlias(), getKeystorePassword())); signature.update(data.getBytes()); return signature.sign(); } Thanks From: David Hook [mailto:dgh-rTAZ0PM/[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 6:13 PM To: Rhuberg,Anthony <[email protected]>; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider Hi, Yes, the FIPS package cannot be changed as it would require revalidation, although that's really a financial, not a technical restraint. There is a bit more to it though - the jars can't be used in the same application as it would make it almost impossible to be sure that an application was actually FIPS compliant. You would only need a 3rd party library to be calling the BC lightweight API to use a non-certified function and it would be all over. So they cannot co-exist, it just won't work like that. I'm happy to discuss this further off list, I'd just need a bit more background on what you're trying to do. Regards, David On 22/06/18 23:48, Rhuberg,Anthony wrote: Hi, I appreciate your help trying to resolve this conflict. Also, forgive my persistence. We require a FIPS compliant/validated crypto module. I do not think “spongycastle-like” is an alternative. We are including both jars because some of our third parties already require use of the non-FIPS compliant jar (not something we can readily change). If I understand this correctly, the conflict seems to be an issue with common classes in either the bcfips and bcprov jars that contain the same classes with different implementations (that are causing the name clashes). If these jars are never intended to be integrated with the same application, I suppose I understand that limitation, but that probably makes it impossible to use the bcfips jar when other third parties (out of our/your control) use the non-fips version. Can the FIPS package not be changed because that would require it to be revalidated (by CMVP) ? What would be the effort necessary for both the bcfips and bcprov to coexist? Maybe we could discuss this offline. Respectfully, Tony From: David Hook [mailto:dgh-rTAZ0PM/[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 4:22 AM To: Rhuberg,Anthony <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider The FIPS package can't be changed. You could do a "spongycastle" on the original Bouncy Castle ones. The FIPS library doesn't have an implementation of the low-level BC library. From a FIPS point of view the low-level API breaks most of the existing rules, and probably a couple they did not consider. Providers can certainly co-exist, but package name clashes (at least in the system class loader) are right out. Regards, David On 21/06/18 06:33, Rhuberg,Anthony wrote: Is it possible or an option to change the package names of bouncy castle fips implementation? Changing the name would create a independent provider that would not conflict with any other providers. ________________________________ From: Rhuberg,Anthony <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 3:49:52 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider Thanks for the clarification. I found at least one class in the same package with a different implementation in bc-fips than bcprov. I am not sure that affects our workflow, but it explains the conflict. -----Original Message----- From: Eckenfels. Bernd [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 3:19 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider The problem is that BC and BcFiPS have conflicting implementation classes. There is some logic to that (be a plugin replacement), but overall it seems to hurt more than it helps. Maybe it would be a option to offer a FIPS jar with distinct namespace for those cases. -- https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seeburger.com&data=02%7C01%7CAnthony.Rhuberg%40Cerner.com%7C0480b4cbfcff443e0de708d5d6e2ba56%7Cfbc493a80d244454a815f4ca58e8c09d%7C0%7C1%7C636651191659833148&sdata=fCAqTqOTcglZ49cyLIA6HCPBiNEp3g4i9Ijydu9sXbo%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________________ From: Rhuberg,Anthony [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 20:58 To: David Hook; Matti Aarnio; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider Hi again, I am trying to understand the conflict further and am not really familiar with JCA/JCE. If both JCE providers 'bcprov´and 'bcfips' are loaded into the same class loader, I do not understand the conflict if they both have different provider names and implementation classes. If I request a Signature.getinstance("SHA256withRSA", "BCFIPS"), would I not get the bcfips implementation and NOT the bcprov instance? Can multiple JCE providers be deployed within an application and the application decide which implementation to use without conflict? I guess I am expecting providers to coexist. Is this conflict a BC conflict only? I am asking because if we selected another JCE provider (to get around this issue) and still have bcprov in the same class loader, would we still have a similar conflict between another provider and bcprov? Thanks again, Tony From: David Hook [mailto:dgh-rTAZ0PM/[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 6:18 PM To: Rhuberg,Anthony <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; Matti Aarnio <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider The high risk element is the JCE - it depends how it gets loaded and if both things make use of the respective providers. Often this means things end up in the system class loader and in that case there can be only one. If bcprov isn't loaded in the system class loader and/or bc-fips is able to satisfy the dependency anyway, you will probably be okay. General the problems you see if it is an issue don't make sense. You'll get issues with undefined methods, class not found, missing fields. In some cases you will get class cast exceptions where it seems impossible as well. If you want to ask the OpenSAML guys to talk to us we would be happy to help them update. Regards, David On 20/06/18 05:04, Rhuberg,Anthony wrote: Just a follow up from my previous question. We have a configuration with a Tomcat Valve which uses opensaml (with a dependency on xmlsec -> bcprov-jdk15on). These classes are part of the root class loader (call it CLroot). We just started using bc-fips-1.0.1.jar for digital signatures in a web application. That jar is part of the war (call it CL1). Based on this configuration, we expected to observe some conflict when executing the pathways for the Tomcat Valve and web application. The applications are "working", but worry that there is some unseen or potential problem that we have just not encountered. Any thoughts? Do you have an examples of how a collision (between the 2 jars bcprov-jdk15on - bc-fips-1.0.1.jar ) would be manifest? Do you have examples of typical errors when there is a conflict? Thanks, Tony From: Matti Aarnio [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2018 2:33 PM To: Rhuberg,Anthony <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [dev-crypto] FIPS Java API provider and non-FIPS provider Hi Tony, The detail that affects more than "in same JVM" is "are they in same class loader?" WARs are loaded into separate class loader chains. WAR1 gets loader chain: CL1, CLroot. WAR2 gets loader chain: CL2, CLroot. If neither BCFIPS nor BCPROV are in CLroot, and instead in separate WARs, then the libraries will not see each other, and no collision happens. The "CLroot" is server/lib/ in current Tomcats. The "CLn" is webapps/warname/WEB-INF/lib/ Best Regards, Matti On 05.06.2018 21:01, Rhuberg,Anthony wrote: We have an application deployed within Tomcat and that application is uses Apache CXF which has a dependency on bcprov-jdk15on-1.51. Referring to: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bouncycastle.org%2Ffips-java%2FBCFipsIn100.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CAnthony.Rhuberg%40Cerner.com%7C0480b4cbfcff443e0de708d5d6e2ba56%7Cfbc493a80d244454a815f4ca58e8c09d%7C0%7C1%7C636651191659833148&sdata=Uu0MQygo4cUAhLyJarXP1W30tz1sEcvY2u9N993brcY%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bouncycastle.org%2Ffips-java%2FBCFipsIn100.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CAnthony.Rhuberg%40Cerner.com%7Ce60fa34500a84aeb1a7a08d5cb12c856%7Cfbc493a80d244454a815f4ca58e8c09d%7C0%7C1%7C636638203905695412&sdata=wmqUcMfgAVX7I2s%2F6rXx2ZCBUnzZZRRMKMBWZXLPR3o%3D&reserved=0>:<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bouncycastle.org%2Ffips-java%2FBCFipsIn100.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CAnthony.Rhuberg%40Cerner.com%7C0480b4cbfcff443e0de708d5d6e2ba56%7Cfbc493a80d244454a815f4ca58e8c09d%7C0%7C1%7C636651191659833148&sdata=Uu0MQygo4cUAhLyJarXP1W30tz1sEcvY2u9N993brcY%3D&reserved=0%3Chttps://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bouncycastle.org%2Ffips-java%2FBCFipsIn100.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CAnthony.Rhuberg%40Cerner.com%7Ce60fa34500a84aeb1a7a08d5cb12c856%7Cfbc493a80d244454a815f4ca58e8c09d%7C0%7C1%7C636638203905695412&sdata=wmqUcMfgAVX7I2s%2F6rXx2ZCBUnzZZRRMKMBWZXLPR3o%3D&reserved=0%3E:> "The provider jar itself has no external dependencies, but it cannot be used in the same JVM as the regular Bouncy Castle provider. The classes in the two jar files do not get along". We are integrating FIPS Java API provider into another application WAR. We have not encountered an issues yet, but wanted to know what kinds of errors are expected if two applications use different Bouncy Castle Java implementations within the same JVM. Thanks,Tony CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and any included attachments are from Cerner Corporation and are intended only for the addressee. The information contained in this message is confidential and may constitute inside or non-public information under international, federal, or state securities laws. Unauthorized forwarding, printing, copying, distribution, or use of such information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the addressee, please promptly delete this message and notify the sender of the delivery error by e-mail or you may call Cerner's corporate offices in Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A at (+1) (816)221-1024. 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