Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: OpenSSL and PQC/FIPS support

Raghu Chidambaram <[email protected]> Wed, 15 Apr 2026 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
Newsgroups gmane.comp.encryption.openssl.user
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Thanks Martin Bonner and Neil,
Thanks for the information.

 then until 3.5.4 is approved, FIPS and PQC are mutually exclusive with=20
OpenSSL (and FIPS is impossible between Sep 2026 and the approval of 3.5.4)=
.
- [Raghu] so both are mutually exclusive if i understood correctly.

These are supported currently only by the 3.5.4 FIPS provider and later=20
versions.  Currently 3.5.4 is undergoing review with our lab and NIST:
-[Raghu] I have little confusion here, when we are talkin about the OpenSSL=
=20
version 3.5.4 is undergoing review means the FIPS provider ( fips modules)=
=20
inside that 3.5.4 version which also contains the SSL and Crypto libraries=
=20
am i correct. Just like OpenSSL 3.0.9 got FIPS 140-2 , OpenSSL 3.1.2=20
version got FIPS 140-3 , similarly OpenSSL 3.5.4 is going for CMVP=20
validation and it will be 140-3 compliant or some other FIPS compliant?

PQC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204=20
(ML-DSA) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA)
-[Raghu] only above 3 algorithms are FIPS approved as of today? is that=20
correct statement.

FIPS and PQC are definitely _not_ mutually exclusive, you can=20
definitely use both PQC algorithms and be FIPS-140-3 compliant.
- [Raghu] we have release our application to all the products/customer in=
=20
Dell saying that we are FIPS compliant, i m part of Dell Organization=20
previously we were using OpenSSL 1.0.2 FIPS version which was supported by=
=20
OpenSSL team for few years later we moved to OpenSSL 3.0.x and now we are=
=20
at OpenSSL 3.5.5 version in our application.
so we cant use few algorithms which are PQC and few which are FIPS 140-3=20
and claim for both? is that correct? we want to claim FIPS 140-3 as of now=
=20
which is in progress and if we move to PQC safe algorithms ( somehow not=20
sure as of now) then we cant claim for FIPS 140-3 right?

Thanks,
Raghu

On Wednesday, 15 April 2026 at 19:42:45 UTC+5:30 Martin Bonner wrote:

> My reading of the original email is that Raghu=E2=80=99s organization ach=
ieved=20
> FIPS compliance by using the FIPS-approved OpenSSL provider.  This is goo=
d,=20
> because I would have said that it while it is touch-and-go whether OpenSS=
L=20
> 3.5.4 is going to be FIPS-approved before Sep 2026, it is very unlikely=
=20
> that a submission made today by Raghu=E2=80=99s organization would be app=
roved by=20
> then.
>
> =20
>
> There is also a question of whether Raghu=E2=80=99s organization needs =
=E2=80=9CFIPS=20
> approved=E2=80=9D, or whether =E2=80=9CFIPS pending=E2=80=9D is good enou=
gh.  It is almost=20
> inconceivable to me that 3.5.4 won=E2=80=99t be *eventually* approved, it=
=E2=80=99s just=20
> a matter of bureaucracy.  OTOH, if FIPS approved is a contractual=20
> requirement (e.g. because the US Government is a customer), then until=20
> 3.5.4 is approved, FIPS and PQC are mutually exclusive with OpenSSL (and=
=20
> FIPS is impossible between Sep 2026 and the approval of 3.5.4).
>
> =20
>
> On =E2=80=9CPQC equivalents for classical algorithms=E2=80=9D, don=E2=80=
=99t forget that if you=20
> are using AES128 you need to switch to AES256 (but AES256 is already=20
> considered acceptable).
>
> =20
>
> Martin Bonner
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> *From:* Neil Horman <[email protected]>=20
> *Sent:* 15 April 2026 14:53
> *To:* Raghu Chidambaram <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* openssl-users <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: OpenSSL and PQC/FIPS support
>
> =20
>
> Raghu- PQC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 20=
4=20
> (ML-DSA) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA). These are supported currently only by th=
e=20
> 3.=E2=80=8A5.=E2=80=8A4 FIPS provider and later versions. Currently 3.=E2=
=80=8A5.=E2=80=8A4 is undergoing=20
> review with our lab and
>
> Raghu-
>
>      PQC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204=
=20
> (ML-DSA) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA).  These are supported currently only by t=
he=20
> 3.5.4 FIPS provider and later versions.  Currently 3.5.4 is undergoing=20
> review with our lab and NIST:
>
>
> https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/mo=
dules-in-process/modules-in-process-list=20
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/csrc.nist.gov/projects/cryptographic-=
module-validation-program/modules-in-process/modules-in-process-list__;!!FJ=
-Y8qCqXTj2!bZut-uZon_VIGux_15WX7wQQlDCz2htlQH38Q5r93kD1FyyfFNGBYigp6MnOcctx=
qdvCUvGlZbPhhLscJuPv$>
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> FIPS and PQC are definitely _not_ mutually exclusive, you can=20
> definitely use both PQC algorithms and be FIPS-140-3 compliant.  The only=
=20
> current barrier is that our provider has not yet been certified by NIST. =
=20
> That need not be a barrier for you however, if you are planning on doing =
a=20
> full submission of openssl through your own lab (though the time effort o=
n=20
> that is constrained by your lab and NIST).
>
> =20
>
> Neil
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2026 at 9:43=E2=80=AFAM Raghu Chidambaram <pcraghu...@gma=
il.com>=20
> wrote:
>
> Hi Team,
>
> =20
>
> Our organization is planning to go for PQC support so that application is=
=20
> quantum safe.
>
> we are already FIPS 140-2 compliant and we are also in the process of=20
> making it FIPS 140-3 compliant as 140-2 will be sunset by Sep 2026.
>
> =20
>
> FIPS
>
> - Our application is FIPS 140-2 and with FIPS provider 3.0.9. We made thi=
s=20
> possible with the help of lot of to and fro discussions over the OpenSSL=
=20
> Forum for good amount of time :) :) .
>
> =20
>
> For 140-3 we did analysis and understood that with OpenSSL version say=20
> 3.5.x we need to bundle the FIPS provider version 3.1.2 ( 140-3 compliant=
 )=20
> instead of 3.0.9( 140-2) compliant. Hope this is correct.
>
> PQC
>
> - For PQC we just started analysis and checking which all algorithms we=
=20
> need to use in order to make it PQC compliant. As part of this we want to=
=20
> understand which of OpenSSL supports PQC and is there any doc / list whic=
h=20
> conveys like from algorithm A we need to move to algorithm, means how to=
=20
> migrate from current set to PQC safe set is what we are checking mainly.=
=20
>
> - one more point what we understood from the discussions internally and=
=20
> with the teams who are handling inside our organization that FIPS and PQC=
=20
> cant go hand in hand, like if we are in FIPS 140-3 version we cant claim=
=20
> for PQC as algo's are different and if we are going to be PQC safe then w=
e=20
> can't claim FIPS 140-3 support, is this correct statement? or our=20
> assumption is wrong?
>
> =20
>
> Need your help and inputs to proceed on these aspects=20
>
> =20
>
> Thank you,
>
> Raghu
>
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Thanks Martin Bonner and Neil,<div>Thanks for the information.</div><div><b=
r /></div><div>=C2=A0then until 3.5.4 is approved, FIPS and PQC are mutuall=
y exclusive with OpenSSL (and FIPS is impossible between Sep 2026 and the a=
pproval of 3.5.4).</div><div>- [Raghu] so both are mutually exclusive if i =
understood correctly.</div><div><br /></div><div>These are supported curren=
tly only by the 3.5.4 FIPS provider and later versions.=C2=A0 Currently 3.5=
.4 is undergoing review with our lab and NIST:</div><div>-[Raghu] I have li=
ttle confusion here, when we are talkin about the OpenSSL version 3.5.4 is =
undergoing review means the FIPS provider ( fips modules) inside that 3.5.4=
 version which also contains the SSL and Crypto libraries am i correct. Jus=
t like OpenSSL 3.0.9 got FIPS 140-2 , OpenSSL 3.1.2 version got FIPS 140-3 =
, similarly OpenSSL 3.5.4 is going for CMVP validation and it will be 140-3=
 compliant or some other FIPS compliant?</div><div><br /></div><div>PQC alg=
orithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204 (ML-DSA) and F=
IPS 205 (SLH-DSA)</div><div>-[Raghu] only above 3 algorithms are FIPS appro=
ved as of today? is that correct statement.</div><div><br /></div><div>FIPS=
 and PQC are definitely=C2=A0_not_ mutually exclusive, you can definitely=
=C2=A0use both PQC algorithms and be FIPS-140-3 compliant.</div><div>- [Rag=
hu] we have release our application to all the products/customer in Dell sa=
ying that we are FIPS compliant, i m part of Dell Organization previously w=
e were using OpenSSL 1.0.2 FIPS version which was supported by OpenSSL team=
 for few years later we moved to OpenSSL 3.0.x and now we are at OpenSSL 3.=
5.5 version in our application.</div><div>so we cant use few algorithms whi=
ch are PQC and few which are FIPS 140-3 and claim for both? is that correct=
? we want to claim FIPS 140-3 as of now which is in progress and if we move=
 to PQC safe algorithms ( somehow not sure as of now) then we cant claim fo=
r FIPS 140-3 right?</div><div><br /></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Raghu<br /=
><div><br /></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wednesday, 15 April 2026 at 19:42:45 UTC+5:30 Martin Bon=
ner wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0=
 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">





<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>My reading of the original email is that Raghu=
=E2=80=99s organization achieved FIPS compliance by using the FIPS-approved=
 OpenSSL provider.=C2=A0 This is good, because I would have said that it wh=
ile it is touch-and-go
 whether OpenSSL 3.5.4 is going to be FIPS-approved before Sep 2026, it is =
very unlikely that a submission made today by Raghu=E2=80=99s organization =
would be approved by then.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>There is also a question of whether Raghu=E2=
=80=99s organization needs =E2=80=9CFIPS approved=E2=80=9D, or whether =E2=
=80=9CFIPS pending=E2=80=9D is good enough.=C2=A0 It is almost inconceivabl=
e to me that 3.5.4 won=E2=80=99t be
<i>eventually</i> approved, it=E2=80=99s just a matter of bureaucracy.=C2=
=A0 OTOH, if FIPS approved is a contractual requirement (e.g. because the U=
S Government is a customer), then until 3.5.4 is approved, FIPS and PQC are=
 mutually exclusive with OpenSSL (and FIPS is impossible
 between Sep 2026 and the approval of 3.5.4).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>On =E2=80=9CPQC equivalents for classical algo=
rithms=E2=80=9D, don=E2=80=99t forget that if you are using AES128 you need=
 to switch to AES256 (but AES256 is already considered acceptable).<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"border-col=
lapse:collapse">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"265" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:198.8pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0=
cm 5.4pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:2.7pt;text-autospace:none"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial Black&=
quot;,sans-serif;color:#6f2176">Martin Bonner</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Gotham Book&quot;;color:#6f2176">=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
Neil Horman &lt;<a href data-email-masked rel=3D"nofollow">[email protected]=
rg</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 15 April 2026 14:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Raghu Chidambaram &lt;<a href data-email-masked rel=3D"nofollow"=
>[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> openssl-users &lt;<a href data-email-masked rel=3D"nofollow">ope=
[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: OpenSSL and PQC/FIPS support<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">Raghu- P=
QC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204 (ML-DSA)=
 and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA). These are supported currently only by the 3.</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;co=
lor:white">=E2=80=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">5.</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:white">=E2=80=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">=
4
 FIPS provider and later versions. Currently 3.</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:white">=E2=80=8A</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">5.</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:white">=E2=80=
=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">4
 is undergoing review with our lab and<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white"><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Raghu-<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PQC algorithms approved by FIPS =
include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204 (ML-DSA) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA).=C2=A0 =
These are supported currently only by the 3.5.4 FIPS provider and later ver=
sions.=C2=A0 Currently 3.5.4 is undergoing review with our
 lab and NIST:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/csrc.n=
ist.gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in-process=
/modules-in-process-list__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!bZut-uZon_VIGux_15WX7wQQlDCz2htlQ=
H38Q5r93kD1FyyfFNGBYigp6MnOcctxqdvCUvGlZbPhhLscJuPv$" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den-GB=
&amp;q=3Dhttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/csrc.nist.gov/projects/cryptogr=
aphic-module-validation-program/modules-in-process/modules-in-process-list_=
_;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!bZut-uZon_VIGux_15WX7wQQlDCz2htlQH38Q5r93kD1FyyfFNGBYigp6M=
nOcctxqdvCUvGlZbPhhLscJuPv$&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1776350941878000&a=
mp;usg=3DAOvVaw07h6jISGr7wujSgn0ApJYQ">https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/crypt=
ographic-module-validation-program/modules-in-process/modules-in-process-li=
st</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">FIPS and PQC are definitely=C2=A0_not_ mutually excl=
usive, you can definitely=C2=A0use both PQC algorithms and be FIPS-140-3 co=
mpliant.=C2=A0 The only current barrier is that our provider has not yet be=
en certified by NIST.=C2=A0 That need not be a barrier
 for you however, if you are planning on doing a full submission of openssl=
 through your own lab (though the time effort on that is constrained by you=
r lab and NIST).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Neil<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 15, 2026 at 9:43<span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">=E2=80=AF</span>AM Raghu Chidambaram &lt;<=
a href data-email-masked rel=3D"nofollow">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Team,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Our organization is planning to go for PQC support s=
o that application is quantum safe.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">we are already FIPS 140-2 compliant and we are also =
in the process of making it FIPS 140-3 compliant as 140-2 will be sunset by=
 Sep 2026.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">FIPS<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- Our application is FIPS 140-2 and with FIPS provid=
er 3.0.9. We made this possible with the help of lot of to and fro discussi=
ons over the OpenSSL Forum for good amount of time :) :) .<u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For 140-3 we did analysis and understood that with O=
penSSL version say 3.5.x we need to bundle the FIPS provider version 3.1.2 =
( 140-3 compliant ) instead of 3.0.9( 140-2) compliant. Hope this is correc=
t.<br>
<br>
PQC<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">- For PQC we just started analysis and checking whic=
h all algorithms we need to use in order to make it PQC compliant. As part =
of this we want to understand which of OpenSSL supports PQC and is there an=
y doc / list which conveys like from
 algorithm A we need to move to algorithm, means how to migrate from curren=
t set to PQC safe set is what we are checking mainly.=C2=A0<br>
<br>
- one more point what we understood from the discussions internally and wit=
h the teams who are handling inside our organization that FIPS and PQC cant=
 go hand in hand, like if we are in FIPS 140-3 version we cant claim for PQ=
C as algo&#39;s are different and if
 we are going to be PQC safe then we can&#39;t claim FIPS 140-3 support, is=
 this correct statement? or our assumption is wrong?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Need your help and inputs to proceed on these aspect=
s=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Raghu<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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