RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: OpenSSL and PQC/FIPS support
"'Martin Bonner' via openssl-users" <[email protected]> Thu, 16 Apr 2026 06:23:40 +0000
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--_000_PH3PPF7A88A980AD6C9D8A344703C2626A2F3232PH3PPF7A88A980A_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > then all the PQC algorithms which are part of this OpenSSL will be FIPS 1= 40-3 compliant Not quite (or at least, not necessarily). The correct statement is =E2=80= =9Call the algorithms (including PQ algorithms) supported by the FIPS provi= der in this OpenSSL will be FIPS 140-3 compliant=E2=80=9D. I haven=E2=80=99t checked, but it is perfectly possible that there are unap= proved PQ algorithms which are supported by the base provider. In the clas= sical world, the base provider supports CAMELLIA (or at least, it used to),= the FIPS provider has never supported CAMELLIA because it isn=E2=80=99t an= approved algorithm. Martin Bonner From: Raghu Chidambaram <[email protected]> Sent: 16 April 2026 07:12 To: openssl-users <[email protected]> Cc: Raghu Chidambaram <[email protected]>; Martin Bonner <Martin.Bon= [email protected]> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: OpenSSL and PQC/FIPS support HI Team, GM, In https:=E2=80=8A//csrc.=E2=80=8Anist.=E2=80=8Agov/projects/c= ryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in-process/modules-in-proces= s-list OpenSSL FIPS Provider The OpenSSL Corporation OpenSSL Corporation co= rporation@=E2=80=8Aopenssl.=E2=80=8Aorg Voice: 877-673-6775 FIPS HI Team, GM, In https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/m= odules-in-process/modules-in-process-list<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https= :/csrc.nist.gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in= -process/modules-in-process-list__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!cn7ZZT_-25LDzb5jpUAc5H92a= _1XhJ9WnBHNw1kBQDMtUMzLCNRxm_pv4KY3dlrtuGtkYbjejIR6Wae8qs7qagtrcis$> OpenSSL FIPS Provider The OpenSSL Corporation * OpenSSL Corporation * [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> * Voice: 877-673-6775 FIPS 140-3 Pending Review (11/25/2025) For the above OpenSSL FIPS validation is in progress, that means here with = OpenSSL 3.5.4 which contains the PQC related algorithms. so once this get the approval then all the PQC algorithms which are part of= this OpenSSL will be FIPS 140-3 compliant and as i mentioned earlier then = we can take this OpenSSL 3.5.4 FIPS provider and bundle in our application to clai= m both PQC and FIPS compliant ? please correct me if our understanding is wrong Thanks, Raghu On Wednesday, 15 April 2026 at 22:12:06 UTC+5:30 Raghu Chidambaram wrote: Thanks Martin Bonner and Neil, Thanks for the information. then until 3.5.4 is approved, FIPS and PQC are mutually exclusive with Ope= nSSL (and FIPS is impossible between Sep 2026 and the approval of 3.5.4). - [Raghu] so both are mutually exclusive if i understood correctly. These are supported currently only by the 3.5.4 FIPS provider and later ver= sions. Currently 3.5.4 is undergoing review with our lab and NIST: -[Raghu] I have little confusion here, when we are talkin about the OpenSSL= version 3.5.4 is undergoing review means the FIPS provider ( fips modules)= inside that 3.5.4 version which also contains the SSL and Crypto libraries= am i correct. Just like OpenSSL 3.0.9 got FIPS 140-2 , OpenSSL 3.1.2 versi= on got FIPS 140-3 , similarly OpenSSL 3.5.4 is going for CMVP validation an= d it will be 140-3 compliant or some other FIPS compliant? PQC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204 (ML-DSA= ) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA) -[Raghu] only above 3 algorithms are FIPS approved as of today? is that cor= rect statement. FIPS and PQC are definitely _not_ mutually exclusive, you can definitely us= e both PQC algorithms and be FIPS-140-3 compliant. - [Raghu] we have release our application to all the products/customer in D= ell saying that we are FIPS compliant, i m part of Dell Organization previo= usly we were using OpenSSL 1.0.2 FIPS version which was supported by OpenSS= L team for few years later we moved to OpenSSL 3.0.x and now we are at Open= SSL 3.5.5 version in our application. so we cant use few algorithms which are PQC and few which are FIPS 140-3 an= d claim for both? is that correct? we want to claim FIPS 140-3 as of now wh= ich is in progress and if we move to PQC safe algorithms ( somehow not sure= as of now) then we cant claim for FIPS 140-3 right? Thanks, Raghu On Wednesday, 15 April 2026 at 19:42:45 UTC+5:30 Martin Bonner wrote: My reading of the original email is that Raghu=E2=80=99s organization achie= ved FIPS compliance by using the FIPS-approved OpenSSL provider. This is g= ood, because I would have said that it while it is touch-and-go whether Ope= nSSL 3.5.4 is going to be FIPS-approved before Sep 2026, it is very unlikel= y that a submission made today by Raghu=E2=80=99s organization would be app= roved by then. There is also a question of whether Raghu=E2=80=99s organization needs =E2= =80=9CFIPS approved=E2=80=9D, or whether =E2=80=9CFIPS pending=E2=80=9D is = good enough. It is almost inconceivable to me that 3.5.4 won=E2=80=99t be = eventually approved, it=E2=80=99s just a matter of bureaucracy. OTOH, if F= IPS approved is a contractual requirement (e.g. because the US Government i= s a customer), then until 3.5.4 is approved, FIPS and PQC are mutually excl= usive with OpenSSL (and FIPS is impossible between Sep 2026 and the approva= l of 3.5.4). On =E2=80=9CPQC equivalents for classical algorithms=E2=80=9D, don=E2=80=99= t forget that if you are using AES128 you need to switch to AES256 (but AES= 256 is already considered acceptable). Martin Bonner From: Neil Horman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: 15 April 2026 14:53 To: Raghu Chidambaram <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: openssl-users <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: OpenSSL and PQC/FIPS support Raghu- PQC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204 = (ML-DSA) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA). These are supported currently only by the = 3.=E2=80=8A5.=E2=80=8A4 FIPS provider and later versions. Currently 3.=E2= =80=8A5.=E2=80=8A4 is undergoing review with our lab and Raghu- PQC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204 (M= L-DSA) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA). These are supported currently only by the 3= .5.4 FIPS provider and later versions. Currently 3.5.4 is undergoing revie= w with our lab and NIST: https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modu= les-in-process/modules-in-process-list<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/c= src.nist.gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in-pr= ocess/modules-in-process-list__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!bZut-uZon_VIGux_15WX7wQQlDCz= 2htlQH38Q5r93kD1FyyfFNGBYigp6MnOcctxqdvCUvGlZbPhhLscJuPv$> FIPS and PQC are definitely _not_ mutually exclusive, you can definitely us= e both PQC algorithms and be FIPS-140-3 compliant. The only current barrie= r is that our provider has not yet been certified by NIST. That need not b= e a barrier for you however, if you are planning on doing a full submission= of openssl through your own lab (though the time effort on that is constra= ined by your lab and NIST). Neil On Wed, Apr 15, 2026 at 9:43=E2=80=AFAM Raghu Chidambaram <pcraghu...@gmail= .com<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hi Team, Our organization is planning to go for PQC support so that application is q= uantum safe. we are already FIPS 140-2 compliant and we are also in the process of makin= g it FIPS 140-3 compliant as 140-2 will be sunset by Sep 2026. FIPS - Our application is FIPS 140-2 and with FIPS provider 3.0.9. We made this = possible with the help of lot of to and fro discussions over the OpenSSL Fo= rum for good amount of time :) :) . For 140-3 we did analysis and understood that with OpenSSL version say 3.5.= x we need to bundle the FIPS provider version 3.1.2 ( 140-3 compliant ) ins= tead of 3.0.9( 140-2) compliant. Hope this is correct. PQC - For PQC we just started analysis and checking which all algorithms we nee= d to use in order to make it PQC compliant. As part of this we want to unde= rstand which of OpenSSL supports PQC and is there any doc / list which conv= eys like from algorithm A we need to move to algorithm, means how to migrat= e from current set to PQC safe set is what we are checking mainly. - one more point what we understood from the discussions internally and wit= h the teams who are handling inside our organization that FIPS and PQC cant= go hand in hand, like if we are in FIPS 140-3 version we cant claim for PQ= C as algo's are different and if we are going to be PQC safe then we can't = claim FIPS 140-3 support, is this correct statement? or our assumption is w= rong? Need your help and inputs to proceed on these aspects Thank you, Raghu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= openssl-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. 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mso-level-text:=EF=82=A7; mso-level-tab-stop:216.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} @list l0:level7 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:=EF=82=A7; mso-level-tab-stop:252.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} @list l0:level8 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:=EF=82=A7; mso-level-tab-stop:288.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} @list l0:level9 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:=EF=82=A7; mso-level-tab-stop:324.0pt; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Wingdings;} ol {margin-bottom:0cm;} ul {margin-bottom:0cm;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:brea= k-word"> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">> </sp= an><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif;color:= #1B1B1B">then all the PQC algorithms which are part of this OpenSSL will be= FIPS 140-3 compliant<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B">Not quite (or at least, not necessarily). = ; The correct statement is =E2=80=9Call the algorithms (including PQ algori= thms) supported by the FIPS provider in this OpenSSL will be FIPS 140-3 compliant=E2=80=9D. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B">I haven=E2=80=99t checked, but it is perfectly= possible that there are unapproved PQ algorithms which are supported by th= e base provider. In the classical world, the base provider supports CAMELLIA (or at least, it used to), the FIPS provider has never s= upported CAMELLIA because it isn=E2=80=99t an approved algorithm.</span><sp= an style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs= p;</o:p></span></p> <table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding= =3D"0" style=3D"border-collapse:collapse"> <tbody> <tr> <td width=3D"265" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:198.8pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0= cm 5.4pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:2.7pt;text-autospace:none"><s= pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial Black&= quot;,sans-serif;color:#6F2176">Martin Bonner</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" st= yle=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Gotham Book",serif;color:#6F= 2176;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs= p;</o:p></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo= nt-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-= US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> = Raghu Chidambaram <[email protected]> <br> <b>Sent:</b> 16 April 2026 07:12<br> <b>To:</b> openssl-users <[email protected]><br> <b>Cc:</b> Raghu Chidambaram <[email protected]>; Martin Bonne= r <[email protected]><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: OpenSSL and PQC/FIPS support<o:p></o:p><= /span></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style=3D"f= ont-size:1.0pt;color:white">HI Team, GM, In https:</span><span style=3D"fon= t-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:white">=E2=80= =8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">//csrc.</span><span s= tyle=3D"font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:whit= e">=E2=80=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">nist.</span>= <span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;col= or:white">=E2=80=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">gov/p= rojects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in-process/modules-= in-process-list OpenSSL FIPS Provider The OpenSSL Corporation OpenSSL Corporation corporat= ion@</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial",san= s-serif;color:white">=E2=80=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:w= hite">openssl.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial= ",sans-serif;color:white">=E2=80=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0= pt;color:white">org Voice: 877-673-6775 FIPS<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:.75pt"><span style=3D"f= ont-size:1.0pt;color:white"><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">HI Team,<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">GM,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">In <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https= :/csrc.nist.gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in= -process/modules-in-process-list__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!cn7ZZT_-25LDzb5jpUAc5H92a= _1XhJ9WnBHNw1kBQDMtUMzLCNRxm_pv4KY3dlrtuGtkYbjejIR6Wae8qs7qagtrcis$">https:= //csrc.nist.gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in= -process/modules-in-process-list</a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B;border:solid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;padding:4.0pt"><br> OpenSSL FIPS Provider<br> The OpenSSL Corporation <o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <ul type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1B1B1B;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-= margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif;border:so= lid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;padding:4.0pt">OpenSSL Corporation<o:p></o:p></span></li>= <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:#1B1B1B;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-= margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;box-sizing: inherit"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif;border:so= lid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;padding:4.0pt"><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"= >[email protected]</a><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" = style=3D"color:#1B1B1B;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;m= so-list:l0 level1 lfo1;box-sizing: inherit"> <span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif;border:so= lid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;padding:4.0pt">Voice: 877-673-6775<o:p></o:p></span></li>= </ul> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B;border:solid #DDDDDD 1.0pt;padding:4.0pt"><br> FIPS 140-3<br> Pending Review (11/25/2025)</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B">For the above OpenSSL FIPS validation is in pr= ogress, that means here with OpenSSL 3.5.4 which contains the PQC related a= lgorithms.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B">so once this get the approval then all the PQC= algorithms which are part of this OpenSSL will be FIPS 140-3 compliant and= as i mentioned earlier then we can </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B">take this OpenSSL 3.5.4 FIPS provider and bund= le in our application to claim both PQC and FIPS compliant ?</span><o:p></o= :p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B">please correct me if our understanding is wron= g</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Source Sans Pro&quo= t;,sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f= amily:"Source Sans Pro",sans-serif;color:#1B1B1B">Raghu</span><o:= p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wednesday, 15 April 2026 at 22:12:06 UTC+5:30 Rag= hu Chidambaram wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c= m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks Martin Bonner and Neil,<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the information.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> then until 3.5.4 is approved, FIPS and PQC are= mutually exclusive with OpenSSL (and FIPS is impossible between Sep 2026 a= nd the approval of 3.5.4).<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">- [Raghu] so both are mutually exclusive if i unders= tood correctly.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">These are supported currently only by the 3.5.4 FIPS= provider and later versions. Currently 3.5.4 is undergoing review wi= th our lab and NIST:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">-[Raghu] I have little confusion here, when we are t= alkin about the OpenSSL version 3.5.4 is undergoing review means the FIPS p= rovider ( fips modules) inside that 3.5.4 version which also contains the S= SL and Crypto libraries am i correct. Just like OpenSSL 3.0.9 got FIPS 140-2 , OpenSSL 3.1.2 version got FIPS 14= 0-3 , similarly OpenSSL 3.5.4 is going for CMVP validation and it will be 1= 40-3 compliant or some other FIPS compliant?<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">PQC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML= -KEM), FIPS 204 (ML-DSA) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA)<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">-[Raghu] only above 3 algorithms are FIPS approved a= s of today? is that correct statement.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">FIPS and PQC are definitely _not_ mutually excl= usive, you can definitely use both PQC algorithms and be FIPS-140-3 co= mpliant.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">- [Raghu] we have release our application to all the= products/customer in Dell saying that we are FIPS compliant, i m part of D= ell Organization previously we were using OpenSSL 1.0.2 FIPS version which = was supported by OpenSSL team for few years later we moved to OpenSSL 3.0.x and now we are at OpenSSL 3.5.5 = version in our application.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">so we cant use few algorithms which are PQC and few = which are FIPS 140-3 and claim for both? is that correct? we want to claim = FIPS 140-3 as of now which is in progress and if we move to PQC safe algori= thms ( somehow not sure as of now) then we cant claim for FIPS 140-3 right?<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Raghu<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wednesday, 15 April 2026 at 19:42:45 UTC+5:30 Mar= tin Bonner wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c= m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">My reading of the original email is that Raghu=E2=80=99s organizat= ion achieved FIPS compliance by using the FIPS-approved OpenSSL provider.&n= bsp; This is good, because I would have said that it while it is touch-and-go whether OpenSSL 3.5.4 is going to be FIPS-appr= oved before Sep 2026, it is very unlikely that a submission made today by R= aghu=E2=80=99s organization would be approved by then.<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">There is also a question of whether Raghu=E2=80=99s organization n= eeds =E2=80=9CFIPS approved=E2=80=9D, or whether =E2=80=9CFIPS pending=E2= =80=9D is good enough. It is almost inconceivable to me that 3.5.4 wo= n=E2=80=99t be <i>eventually</i> approved, it=E2=80=99s just a matter of bureaucracy. = ; OTOH, if FIPS approved is a contractual requirement (e.g. because the US = Government is a customer), then until 3.5.4 is approved, FIPS and PQC are m= utually exclusive with OpenSSL (and FIPS is impossible between Sep 2026 and the approval of 3.5.4).<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">On =E2=80=9CPQC equivalents for classical algorithms=E2=80=9D, don= =E2=80=99t forget that if you are using AES128 you need to switch to AES256= (but AES256 is already considered acceptable).<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> <table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding= =3D"0" style=3D"border-collapse:collapse"> <tbody> <tr> <td width=3D"265" valign=3D"top" style=3D"width:198.8pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0= cm 5.4pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:2.7pt= ;text-autospace:none"> <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial Blac= k",sans-serif;color:#6F2176">Martin Bonner</span><o:p></o:p></p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quo= t;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f= ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Neil Horman <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>= ; <br> <b>Sent:</b> 15 April 2026 14:53<br> <b>To:</b> Raghu Chidambaram <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">pc= [email protected]</a>><br> <b>Cc:</b> openssl-users <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">opens= [email protected]</a>><br> <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: OpenSSL and PQC/FIPS support</span><o:p></o:= p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">Raghu- PQC algorithms = approved by FIPS include FIPS 203 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204 (ML-DSA) and FIPS 205 = (SLH-DSA). These are supported currently only by the 3.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Aria= l",sans-serif;color:white">=E2=80=8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.= 0pt;color:white">5.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"= Arial",sans-serif;color:white">=E2=80=8A</span><span style=3D"font-siz= e:1.0pt;color:white">4 FIPS provider and later versions. Currently 3.</span><span style=3D"font-s= ize:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:white">=E2=80=8A</= span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">5.</span><span style=3D"fo= nt-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:white">=E2=80= =8A</span><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt;color:white">4 is undergoing review with our lab and</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">Raghu-<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> PQC algorithms approved by FIPS include FIPS 2= 03 (ML-KEM), FIPS 204 (ML-DSA) and FIPS 205 (SLH-DSA). These are supp= orted currently only by the 3.5.4 FIPS provider and later versions. Currently 3.5.4 is undergoing review with our lab and NIST= :<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/csrc.nist.gov/projec= ts/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in-process/modules-in-pr= ocess-list__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!bZut-uZon_VIGux_15WX7wQQlDCz2htlQH38Q5r93kD1Fyy= fFNGBYigp6MnOcctxqdvCUvGlZbPhhLscJuPv$" target=3D"_blank">https://csrc.nist= .gov/projects/cryptographic-module-validation-program/modules-in-process/mo= dules-in-process-list</a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">FIPS and PQC are definitely _not_ mutually exclusive, you can= definitely use both PQC algorithms and be FIPS-140-3 compliant. = The only current barrier is that our provider has not yet been certified by NIST. That need not be a barrier for you h= owever, if you are planning on doing a full submission of openssl through y= our own lab (though the time effort on that is constrained by your lab and = NIST).<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">Neil<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">On Wed, Apr 15, 2026 at 9:43<span style=3D"font-family:"Arial= ",sans-serif">=E2=80=AF</span>AM Raghu Chidambaram <<a href=3D"mail= to:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c= m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-= bottom:5.0pt"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">Hi Team,<o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">Our organization is planning to go for PQC support so that applica= tion is quantum safe.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">we are already FIPS 140-2 compliant and we are also in the process= of making it FIPS 140-3 compliant as 140-2 will be sunset by Sep 2026.<o:p= ></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">FIPS<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">- Our application is FIPS 140-2 and with FIPS provider 3.0.9. We m= ade this possible with the help of lot of to and fro discussions over the O= penSSL Forum for good amount of time :) :) .<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">For 140-3 we did analysis and understood that with OpenSSL version= say 3.5.x we need to bundle the FIPS provider version 3.1.2 ( 140-3 compli= ant ) instead of 3.0.9( 140-2) compliant. Hope this is correct.<br> <br> PQC<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">- For PQC we just started analysis and checking which all algorith= ms we need to use in order to make it PQC compliant. As part of this we wan= t to understand which of OpenSSL supports PQC and is there any doc / list which conveys like from algorithm A we nee= d to move to algorithm, means how to migrate from current set to PQC safe s= et is what we are checking mainly. <br> <br> - one more point what we understood from the discussions internally and wit= h the teams who are handling inside our organization that FIPS and PQC cant= go hand in hand, like if we are in FIPS 140-3 version we cant claim for PQ= C as algo's are different and if we are going to be PQC safe then we can't claim FIPS 140-3 support, is thi= s correct statement? or our assumption is wrong?<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">Need your help and inputs to proceed on these aspects <o:p></= o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">Raghu<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">-- <br> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;openssl-users" group.<br> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]<= /a>.<br> To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:= /groups.google.com/a/openssl.org/d/msgid/openssl-users/9d605db8-9220-491c-9= 424-12b42ed92948n*40openssl.org?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter_= _;JQ!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!bZut-uZon_VIGux_15WX7wQQlDCz2htlQH38Q5r93kD1FyyfFNGBYigp= 6MnOcctxqdvCUvGlZbPhhPVv707z$" target=3D"_blank"> https://groups.google.com/a/openssl.org/d/msgid/openssl-users/9d605db8-9220= -491c-9424-12b42ed92948n%40openssl.org</a>.<o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">-- <br> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;openssl-users" group.<br> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]<= /a>.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a= lt:auto">To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/groups.google.com/a/openssl.o= rg/d/msgid/openssl-users/CAJbOq16tR2n_U1tWtzbCUzt57PjEZQbiJRjvM-3vPQ3gkrGyX= A*40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter__;JQ!!FJ-Y8qC= qXTj2!bZut-uZon_VIGux_15WX7wQQlDCz2htlQH38Q5r93kD1FyyfFNGBYigp6MnOcctxqdvCU= vGlZbPhhA0Qq6iv$" target=3D"_blank"> https://groups.google.com/a/openssl.org/d/msgid/openssl-users/CAJbOq16tR2n_= U1tWtzbCUzt57PjEZQbiJRjvM-3vPQ3gkrGyXA%40mail.gmail.com</a>.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i>Any email and file= s/attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the in= dividual or entity to whom they are addressed. If this message has been sen= t to you in error, you must not copy, distribute or disclose of the information it contains. <u>Please notify En= trust immediately and delete the message from your system.</u></i><o:p></o:= p></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </body> </html> <p></p> -- <br /> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;openssl-users" group.<br /> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to <a href=3D"mailto:openssl-users+unsubscribe-MCmKBN63+BlAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org">openssl-us= [email protected]</a>.<br /> To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/a/openss= l.org/d/msgid/openssl-users/PH3PPF7A88A980AD6C9D8A344703C2626A2F3232%40PH3P= PF7A88A980A.namprd11.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfoote= r">https://groups.google.com/a/openssl.org/d/msgid/openssl-users/PH3PPF7A88= A980AD6C9D8A344703C2626A2F3232%40PH3PPF7A88A980A.namprd11.prod.outlook.com<= /a>.<br /> --_000_PH3PPF7A88A980AD6C9D8A344703C2626A2F3232PH3PPF7A88A980A_--