Re: Zero-install-devel Digest, Vol 140, Issue 2

Great to see the new docs unified and automated from MD.

Care should be taken to not reword why-not section into something 
subjective. An operating system distribution is made up by its package 
manager, see f.e. gentoo's portage, Arch's pacman, Void's xbps, and 
people are sensitive.

De facto zeroinstall is a niche package manager that some reject due to 
containerization. This is a valid contra, that of course also has its 
pros, like encapsulation and the dependencies in different versions.

IMO zeroinstall universal package manager is very useful but it not 
adopted well and it is a different approach than mainline package 
managers which is easiest seen in maintenance when looking at Arch or 
Void package managers + AUR.
While with standard package managers one maintains all software to be 
compatible at the stable edge and if one is not, then it is updated to 
become compatible again, maybe breaking other software depending on the 
tool just updated. Thus these are updated to become compatible again. 
You get the point, this is a neverending story if and only if there are 
new modifications to existing software. If not then there was indeed an 
ending when all got compatible to each other.

ZeroInstall opted out of this maintenance game by ensuring one program 
gets what it needs for the functionality it provides.

This is very good.
As is the bundling of the template and release XML with the source 
repository.

Yet people do not use it because it simply is no viable up to date, 
complete alternative yet. If one wanted to use 0install instead of pip 
and npm one first had to package way to many packages, not to speak 
about maintaining them. Only automated generation and periodic update of 
all packages in existence will give zero-install the edge.

Then we'd have distributed package hosting by each developer or 
maintainer. In the most ideal case that would be only one maintainer 
which most often is the developer. In contrast to the current situation 
where every distro needs its maintainer for every package.

This goal of distributed single source principle distribution can be 
compared to how devs converted from SVN to Git or mercurial. Or maybe 
from piecemeal deployment to deploying a docker image. I see 0install as 
inbetween those and as a very noble goal to pursue.

I use it for as much of my code works whenever it makes sense, i.e. it 
needs be distributed other than using Git clone, i.e. if there are 
dependencies that git submodules can not sensibly handle.

Thank you for your work.




On 2018-08-30 12:01 PM, [email protected] 
wrote:
> Send Zero-install-devel mailing list submissions to
> 	[email protected]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zero-install-devel
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	[email protected]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	[email protected]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Zero-install-devel digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Zero Install documentation web-site
>        https://km-200.github.io/docs ([email protected])
>     2. Zero Install documentation web-site ([email protected])
>     3. To get your own programs added, please announce them here on
>        the ML ([email protected])
>     4. why to not use 0install ([email protected])
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:48:00 +0000
> From: [email protected]
> To: 0 ml <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Zero-install-devel] Zero Install documentation web-site
> 	https://km-200.github.io/docs
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> see my fork    ;-)
>
>
>   https://km-200.github.io/docs
>
>
> however, this does not make sense! People specifically use 0install
> to get rid of github and github-pages due to the agressive censorship
> on github and such places.
>
> so there is little point to host stuff on github-pages ,  e.g.
>
>
>   https://km-200.github.io/docs
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 15:50:00 +0000
> From: [email protected]
> To: 0 ml <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Zero-install-devel] Zero Install documentation web-site
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>> Finally, I set up free automatic building and hosting using ReadTheDocs at
>> https://0install.readthedocs.io/. This service also supports custom domains
>> using CNAMEs, including automatically issuing TLS certificates. So we could
>> serve this from https://docs.0install.net/ for example.
>>
>> Next, I will start integrating documentation for Zero Install for Windows
>> from http://0install.de/ into this web-site.
>>
>> What do you guys think? Is this a viable approach? Any areas you think need
>> improvement?
>>
>> Regards
>> Bastian
>
> nice idea though Linux is more important than windoofus warez
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:41:00 +0000
> From: [email protected]
> To: 0 ml <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Zero-install-devel] To get your own programs added, please
> 	announce them here on the ML
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
>
>
> http://roscidus.com/0mirror/
>
>
> says:
>
>>   To get your own programs added, please announce them and your GPG key on the mailing list.
> OK so here I want to announce that.
>
>
> What is the next step?
>
>
> http://roscidus.com/0mirror
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:51:00 +0000
> From: [email protected]
> To: 0 ml <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Zero-install-devel] why to not use 0install
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
>> Users only have to learn one extra package manager, not one per language.
> from  http://0install.net/why-not.html
>
>
> I would reword it like this:
>
>
> even though some package managers clearly are much more ergonomic than
> others, it seems like every new manager makes a completely new interface
> requiring folks to learn stuff they loathe to learn since it seems very
> much redundant and tends to confuse everybody.
>
>
> Programmers of package managers are not as user-friendly as they could
> be by not adhering to the most relevant standard which might be apt or
> snyaptic or something.
>
>
> No wonder that users are 0enthusiastic about manager #66666 to lear and
> soon forget and relarn again.
>
>
> What a waste of time !
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Zero-install-devel mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/zero-install-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Zero-install-devel Digest, Vol 140, Issue 2
> **************************************************

-- 
<em>Club board</em>
Free enivronment-friendly Technology, Research, Prototyping and Cyber systems
Network solutions and simple web pages and shops
Social and ethical hacking
Ecological, sustainable automata


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot