Re: Proposed: libpcre

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On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:06 am, Havoc Pennington wrote:
> On Sun, 2004-08-01 at 02:46, Brad Hards wrote:
> > On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 15:18 pm, Havoc Pennington wrote:
> > > Maybe this points out that the freedesktop.org platform should be
> > > limited to things that need to be shared for interoperability and/or
> > > consistent user experience across apps.
> >
> > Serious question: what does "consistent user experience mean"?
>
> The various UI guidelines out there are full of examples:
> http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/
An example doesn't provide scoping, which is really what this is about. In=
=20
terms of the Gnome HIG, which parts are supposed to be addressed (in part o=
r=20
in full) by the platform?
Section 1 - Intro - I can see that the accessability / i18n / l10n could be=
,=20
but platform doesn't have anything that covers those yet.
Section 2 - Desktop integration. The menu spec, shared mime database and ma=
ybe=20
some kind of shared notification are probably worthy objectives here.
Section 3 - Windows- nothing that platform can really do - this is a toolki=
t=20
issue
Section 4 - Menus - nothing that platform can really do - this is a toolkit=
 /=20
application issue
Section 5 - Toolbar - nothing that platform can really do - this is a=20
toolkit / application issue
Section 6 - Controls - nothing that platform can do - this is mostly a tool=
kit=20
issue
Section 7 - Feedback - nothing that platform can really do - this is mostly=
 an=20
application issue
Section 8 - Visual Design - not much that platform can do. Perhaps some kin=
d=20
of shared definition of colour / palette, and the fonts issues could be in=
=20
scope.
Section 9 - Icons. Maybe some scope for platform in terms of shared icons?
Section 10 - User input - not much platform can do. Maybe some longer term=
=20
work on CJK input?
Section 11 - Language - not much platform can do.
Section 12 - Checklists - nothing platform can do.

So I'm not really sure how you intend that platform can provide a better=20
user-level experience

> I'm not really interested in reductio ad absurdum, clearly all the lines
> are blurry. I just think it's a mistake to be pulling in things that are
> only very loosely desktop-related. Also, the first release of
> freedesktop.org should be very conservative about how much to include.
You need to be careful about providing so little that you aren't doing=20
anything.

> My definition is that it's a "substrate for platforms" or "backend for
> toolkits" - in other words it should basically contain the *shared*
> dependencies of Qt, GTK+, XUL, WINE and other common desktop toolkits.
Then on that basis, libpcre is a reasonable part of the substrate.

> In other words, I'm often not expecting anyone to code to
> freedesktop.org libraries directly, or exclusively; the fact that we
> won't include a toolkit is the most obvious example.
substrate for development or substrate for users? Perl is required to build=
=20
lots of applications, but isn't used in many.

> But I also don't think we should include things like an ODBC-style
> database layer, a scripting language, an IDE, or whatever. Let's stick
> to our core competency.
SQLlite is emerging as a common dependency...

> http://ometer.com/DesktopCon2004.sxi has some notes I presented at
> DesktopCon
Interesting slides, but not very definitive about scope or goals. In fact,=
=20
almost careful to avoid annoying people ;-) That consistent user experience=
=20
is pretty difficult without a common toolkit, theming or not.

Brad

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