Re: Re: GRASS still quite far from usable

Markus,

Thanks for trying to help.

> -----
> From: Markus Neteler
> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:38 AM
> 
> > was able to generate tons of cryptic errors about command-line 
> > arguments, but could not get a single line to be drawn.
> 
> Consider to post the error, otherwise I can't help much :-)

First, i get "ERROR: Required parameter <map> not set."  If i select my
imported vector (again..) in the 'Name of input vector' field, then i get
"No socket to connect to for monitor <x0>: No graphics device selected."

I can almost understand having to tell GRASS which layer to draw (although
it's unfriendly, i simply want to draw the data i've got, which should be
obvious.)  However, i don't understand GRASS having to be told that i have a
monitor(?!)  Is this something left over from the early 1970s when graphics
output was not always available?

> > GRASS opens with a window titled "GRASS 6.0.0 GIS Manager - 
> > spearfish60".  Nothing is displayed in the window
> > - not graphics, not a list of layers, nothing!
> 
> Sure. How should GRASS know which of the many maps the user wants
> to see?

If i load a set of layers, it shouldn't show me what layers i've loaded?
This doesn't make any sense at all.

> Not even ArcView starts with displaying a map but just with the
> user interface.

ArcView shows you what layers exist, and as soon as you turn on a layer,
it's drawn.  This is really obvious and easy.

> > I looked for, but could not find any command to Zoom All, or 
> > otherwise draw the data
> 
> There are:
> - in d.m: a magnifying glass symbol [1]

I was looking for a Zoom All because i was guessing that GRASS wasn't smart
enough to start the view with the full extents of the data.  Now it seems
that's not the problem, instead GRASS isn't even smart enough to draw the
data at all until i locate some undocumented command to tell it i have a
monitor.

> - in d.m: a menu entry under "display"

I don't find a "Display All" or "Zoom to Full Extents" command under
"display".  This is possibly the most common display operation in GIS, and
it's mysteriously missing.

> Sure: how should GRASS know which map you want to see?

Because it's the map i loaded?  It could at least show me what maps exist so
that i could indicate which to display?

> >  Command "Display: Redraw active display" opens a blank window 
> > titled "dialog1" with nothing in it.  And so on.
> > I get the impression that rather little testing or debugging has 
> > been done with this application.
> 
> We have 1 million hits per month on grass.itc.it

That's very sad that there are so many people evaluating it when it's so
broken and far from usable.  Even a tiny amount of testing would turn up
broken things like that empty "dialog1".

> Did you consider to read documentation?

If it existed, i'd love to read it.  The "GRASS GIS 6.0.0 Reference Manual"
is actually only a reference guide to the backend, low-level command-line
programming aspect of the program.  I have not found any documentation for
_the GRASS application itself_.

>  http://grass.itc.it/gdp/books.php

As mentioned in another email, one (1) page listing the menu items with a
screenshot is like no documentation at all.

>  http://grass.itc.it/download/addons.php
>  -> Qt/GRASS
>  -> QGIS & GRASS
>  -> JAVAGRASS

Those are APIs for programmers.  I'm talking about an actual GIS application
intended for use by GIS users.  Isn't anyone considering that?

-Ben