Re: New website design: help needed

"Yury V. Zaytsev via mc-devel" <mc-devel-+hD5IHI5XseWCegYutOAJTiNl0CLU6MPYPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org> Mon, 17 Feb 2025 08:34:54 +0100
Newsgroups gmane.comp.gnome.apps.mc.devel
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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> On 17. Feb 2025, at 08:06, David Niklas via mc-devel =
<mc-devel-+hD5IHI5XseWCegYutOAJTiNl0CLU6MPYPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>=20
>> * Ideally clean and light design (think terminalcss.xyz), accessible
>> and browsable with both text mode / legacy browsers and modern =
software.
> Umm, why use a framework if we're just doing a few pages? Like, one =
css
> file is all we'd need. No framework necessary, right?

Right, that's not a hard requirement. It's just that if I end up doing =
it myself, I'm definitely going to use Bootstrap or something to avoid =
writing my own normalization code and/or otherwise fiddling with =
differences between browsers, reinventing my own grid system, etc.

The days when I knew the exact differences between MSIE 4/5, Netscape =
4.75 and Opera 5 rendering engines by heart are long gone, and I'm not =
interested in investing more than the bare minimum in maintenance at the =
expense of bulkiness, which is irrelevant these days anyway. Upgrading =
Bootstrap has been a pleasant experience over the years (compared to =
maintaining my own resets and hacks).

>> * The implementation should be HTML5, using some static generator -
>> maybe hugo or mkdocs?
> HTML5 isn't supported by legacy browsers such as lynx. You might use a
> subset of the markup language, and that would work. Why is HTML5 a =
hard
> requirement?

Define "not supported". Lynx renders HTML5 structured with graceful =
degradation in mind perfectly well. By HTML5, I meant clean, modern, =
accessible code that takes advantage of all the latest semantic =
constructs, not that it should be completely useless in old/text-mode =
browsers. In fact, I specifically mentioned the opposite.

>> * There should be room for an AdSense plug.
> Because you know everyone loves ads. ;)

They pay for the domain and SSL certificates though, so I'd like to keep =
the account active. You can have a look at what it is right now. A =
single ad at the bottom of a single page, and it pays for the domain, =
that's it.

It's not like there's a secret commotion by some underground benefactor =
to invest a few million of bitcoin proceeds into a newly formed Midnight =
Commander Foundation that will make this point irrelevant.

Besides, those who *don't* love ads are browsing with AdBlock enabled, =
aren't they? And I haven't seen many ads in Lynx either.

> What sort of timeframe are you looking to get this done in?


I have no hard deadlines, but ideally a few months. I hope to make some =
progress on other fronts (ticket and wiki migrations) by the end of =
March. This will make a home page migration possible, but it can be =
postponed for quite a while by simply making parts of Trac read-only, =
which I hope is not too complicated.

All the best,
Yury=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: =
after-white-space;"><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 17. Feb =
2025, at 08:06, David Niklas via mc-devel =
&lt;mc-devel-+hD5IHI5XseWCegYutOAJTiNl0CLU6MPYPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org&gt; =
wrote:</div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><br>* Ideally clean and light design (think =
terminalcss.xyz), accessible<br>and browsable with both text mode / =
legacy browsers and modern software.<br></blockquote><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Umm, why use a framework =
if we're just doing a few pages? Like, one css</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;">file is all we'd need. =
No framework necessary, right?</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: =
none;"></div></blockquote><div><div><br></div><div>Right, that's not a =
hard requirement. It's just that if I end up doing it myself, I'm =
definitely going to use Bootstrap or something to avoid writing my own =
normalization code and/or otherwise fiddling with differences between =
browsers, reinventing my own grid system, =
etc.</div><div><br></div><div>The days when I knew the exact differences =
between MSIE 4/5, Netscape 4.75 and Opera 5 rendering engines by heart =
are long gone, and I'm not interested in investing more than the bare =
minimum in maintenance at the expense of bulkiness, which is irrelevant =
these days anyway. Upgrading Bootstrap has been a pleasant experience =
over the years (compared to maintaining my own resets and =
hacks).</div><div><br></div></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;">* The implementation should be HTML5, using some =
static generator -<br>maybe hugo or mkdocs?<br></blockquote><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;">HTML5 isn't supported by =
legacy browsers such as lynx. You might use a</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;">subset of the markup =
language, and that would work. Why is HTML5 a hard</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;">requirement?</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Define "not supported". =
Lynx renders HTML5 structured with graceful degradation in mind =
perfectly well. By HTML5, I meant clean, modern, accessible code that =
takes advantage of all the latest semantic constructs, not that it =
should be completely useless in old/text-mode browsers. In fact, I =
specifically mentioned the opposite.</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: =
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;">* There should be room for an AdSense =
plug.<br></blockquote><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Because =
you know everyone loves ads. ;)</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>They =
pay for the domain and SSL certificates though, so I'd like to keep the =
account active. You can have a look at what it is right now. A single ad =
at the bottom of a single page, and it pays for the domain, that's =
it.</div><div><br></div><div>It's not like there's a secret commotion by =
some underground benefactor to invest a few million of bitcoin proceeds =
into a newly formed Midnight Commander Foundation that will make this =
point irrelevant.</div><div><br></div><div>Besides, those who *don't* =
love ads are browsing with AdBlock enabled, aren't they? And I haven't =
seen many ads in Lynx either.</div><div><br></div></div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">What =
sort of timeframe are you looking to get this done in?</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; =
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>I have no hard =
deadlines, but ideally a few months. I hope to make some progress on =
other fronts (ticket and wiki migrations) by the end of March. This will =
make a home page migration possible, but it can be postponed for quite a =
while by simply making parts of Trac read-only, which I hope is not too =
complicated.</div><br><div>All the =
best,</div><div>Yury</div></body></html>=

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