Re: Training workshops at GUADEC

Thanks, those are valid points. FWIW I can totally understand if you
do decide against this workshop. It was just like "hey lets do
workshops, who can do some" and this is what I normally do as
workshops so I'm offering it.

2016-04-15 18:53 GMT+02:00 Ekaterina Gerasimova <[email protected]>:
> On 15 April 2016 at 21:44, Lasse Schuirmann <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> https://wiki.gnome.org/GUADEC/2016/Workshops/ContributeToAnOpenSourceProject
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate it if you made it clear in the title that this workshop is
>>> about contributing *code* to a project.
>>
>> It's not necessarily, our newcomer issues often include documentation
>> problems as well. What is not included is internationalization or not
>> well defined topics as they pose a barrier to learning the workflow
>> which is the main goal.
>>
>> I'd be happy to make the title more clearer if this is still required.
>
> I think it is. You're not including localisation (including
> team-dependent differences), engagement/marketing, documentation (user
> and developer) workflows, cultural barriers, working on/with the
> design team, and other teams and committees.
>
> When we ran one of these workshops, we had about an equal split of
> attendees go to coding, documentation, engagement and marketing.
>
>>> On a more technical note, I think it would be much more valuable to the
>>> GNOME project if the contributions during the workshop were using the GNOME
>>> workflow, to a GNOME-hosted repository.
>>
>> I totally understand that, however I will not be able to offer this
>> workshop with any GNOME repository. We, i.e. the coala community, have
>> taken an extensive effort to provide newcomer friendly issues so
>> newcomers can learn the workflow instead of being confused. I have
>> never seen such an issue in GNOME. (And yes, I know gnome-love, it's
>> still quite a barrier.)
>>
>> I will not offer this workshop with a GNOME repository because quality
>> will suffer. Maybe somebody else can do it if that is an absolute
>> requirement. Our workflow is derived from the GNOME one and features a
>> rebase based process with a linear history.
>>
>> People will learn everything they need for contributing to GNOME and
>> also learn about workflows using by other projects. The goal is
>> specifically *not* about enabling them to contribute to coala but
>> about giving them the knowledge to learn the workflow of any project
>> and having tried out one of the more complicated ones goes a long way
>> for this.
>>
>> If people can contribute to coala they can contribute to GNOME, the
>> only difference is they push the patches with git bz instead to a
>> branch of their fork.
>
> I think that working with Bugzilla rather than pull requests is a
> pretty big difference for someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
> I admit that going from Bugzilla to Phabricator and re-remembering how
> to use github took me a while even though I was pretty confident about
> what I was doing. It's not trivial for someone who isn't used to it.
> Of course, not all GNOME projects use git-bz at all.
>
> Some other differences in workflow that I see here are that… GNOME
> uses IRC, getting access to git is tricky, workflow tends to change
> when one gets git access, there are other teams that developers pretty
> much must talk to, no pull requests, no automatically run tests or
> builds before merging/any automated builds are run after, and so on.
>
> In my experience, the biggest barrier to actually starting
> contributing is understanding our infrastructure and setting up
> accounts. Together with the workflow differences, I believe that this
> would be too different from contributing to coala to be much help
> specifically for GNOME.
>
> Another thing that we've done previously, is poll the attendees for
> their programming language preference for the workshop (if I remember
> correctly, it's always been python) and set up mentors so we can say
> things like "if you get stuck with finding the right person to talk to
> or need help figuring out how to start, you can ping Rupert and Wanda
> in #gnome-hackers for help", which wouldn't make as much sense if
> coala is the example project.
>
> I'm sure that coala is an easier project to contribute to than GNOME,
> but I'm not convinced that a coala-based workshop is what would be
> wanted at GUADEC rather than a GNOME one, but that's not up to me to
> decide. I was mostly surprised to see a proposal for coala.
>
>> I hope this helps understanding.
>>
>> Lasse
>>
>>>> 2016-04-12 14:41 GMT+02:00 Ekaterina Gerasimova <[email protected]>:
>>>> > On 12 April 2016 at 17:49, Benjamin Berg <[email protected]>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >> On Di, 2016-04-12 at 12:39 +0200, Lasse Schuirmann wrote:
>>>> >>> Btw. can't you add a "Workshop" type of thing to the CfP system? One
>>>> >>> thing
>>>> >>> to rule them all, would be easier...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Yeah, it would be more consistent. I am not sure it would simplify
>>>> >> matters a lot from an organizational point of view though. So right
>>>> >> now, I doubt that it is worth the trouble.
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't think it's a good idea for the moment. Workshops and talks are
>>>> > quite different with different requirements in terms of things to
>>>> > consider when picking out good ones and who is a good person to pick
>>>> > them out.
>>>> >
>>>> >> Benjamin
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Sincerely,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Lasse Schuirmann
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> [email protected]
>>>> >>> http://viperdev.io/
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> 2016-04-12 12:13 GMT+02:00 Benjamin Berg <[email protected]>:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Hi,
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > On Di, 2016-04-12 at 11:45 +0200, Lasse Schuirmann wrote:
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > I'd certainly still be interested but won't have the time to
>>>> >>> > > coordinate
>>>> >>> > > everything around this as always. GSoC's going crazy right now
>>>> >>> > > and I'm
>>>> >>> > > doing stuff for too many orgs here.
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > I hope I can work out a few rough proposals, post them here and
>>>> >>> > > let you
>>>> >>> > > choose which you like so I can refine.
>>>> >>> > OK, someone will need to make a couple of executive decisions
>>>> >>> > though,
>>>> >>> > as I won't be the person actually doing the workshops. :)
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > I think a few questions are missing for the workshops IMO:
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > - How long should the workshop take? (Half day, day, two days
>>>> >>> > > possible?)
>>>> >>> > It is planned for 1 full day right now (i.e. August 11th).
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > - What should participants be able to do after the workshop.
>>>> >>> > > (Helps
>>>> >>> > setting
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > expectations right and usually also helps planning very much.)
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > Few organizational questiosn:
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > - Do we have any idea about the target audience? Very important
>>>> >>> > > for
>>>> >>> > > workshop holders to know.
>>>> >>> > I am totally fine with you deciding on the exact audience.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Ideally, I think it would be nice to have something that targets
>>>> >>> > (local)
>>>> >>> > students who are interested in free software and hopefully GNOME.
>>>> >>> > So my
>>>> >>> > guess is that it makes sense to expect some prior knowledge, but
>>>> >>> > not much
>>>> >>> > actual experience (e.g. they know what git is, but have never send
>>>> >>> > a patch
>>>> >>> > upstream).
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > - Will you be able to organize material locally? That usually
>>>> >>> > > includes
>>>> >>> > lots
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > and lots of sticky notes and threeish pieces of custom printed
>>>> >>> > > paper per
>>>> >>> > > participant. A projector with a few adaptors.
>>>> >>> > Sorry, I didn't forward that list to you. We will provide a seminar
>>>> >>> > room with the following:
>>>> >>> >  * projector
>>>> >>> >  * blackboard
>>>> >>> >  * WiFi and 1-2 LAN ports
>>>> >>> >  * multiway power extensions (1 socket per person)
>>>> >>> >  * chairs/tables
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Adaptors are on my todo list to check and ping later. Anything else
>>>> >>> > should be requested so we can organize something.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Didn't think about paper/sticky notes before, sounds sensible to
>>>> >>> > include that for all workshops.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > - Are there tables, arrangeable for group work?
>>>> >>> > Yes.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > - For longer workshops, at least some water would be nice to
>>>> >>> > > prohibit
>>>> >>> > > dehydration.
>>>> >>> > Good point. Noted.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > - It'd be great to have a BoF related or accompanying every
>>>> >>> > > workshop. A
>>>> >>> > > very critical point is to get people to try out the stuff even
>>>> >>> > > after the
>>>> >>> > > actual workshop. Knowing a place where they can come and hack
>>>> >>> > > *and ask*
>>>> >>> > > would be awesome. IMO we should encourage workshoppers to
>>>> >>> > > organize a BoF.
>>>> >>> > Oh, that is a good idea and easy to implement.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > - Would be nice to have feedback sheets so we can measure the
>>>> >>> > > success and
>>>> >>> > > impact of the workshops. This is one big experiement so let's not
>>>> >>> > > forget
>>>> >>> > > gathering data.
>>>> >>> > Interesting, thought. For whatever reason I hadn't considered that
>>>> >>> > yet,
>>>> >>> > even though I have done exactly the same thing for other events.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Added it to my list. Biggest task is to figure out the questions to
>>>> >>> > put
>>>> >>> > on the sheets.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Benjamin
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > Sincerely,
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > Lasse Schuirmann
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > [email protected]
>>>> >>> > > http://viperdev.io/
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > 2016-04-12 11:30 GMT+02:00 Benjamin Berg <[email protected]
>>>> >>> > > et>:
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > > Hey,
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > > On Mi, 2016-01-27 at 14:27 +0000, David King wrote:
>>>> >>> > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > > I have done some introductions to git and GNOME inspired
>>>> >>> > Workflows,
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > > maintaining projects properly in two universities
>>>> >>> > > > > > > recently and
>>>> >>> > people
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > > seemed to like it. I could think of turning this into a
>>>> >>> > > > > > > workshop
>>>> >>> > if
>>>> >>> > >
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > >
>>>> >>> > > > > > > there is demand.
>>>> >>> > > > > > Yeah, something like a GIT and maybe FOSS basics workshop
>>>> >>> > > > > > would be
>>>> >>> > > > > > great to see!
>>>> >>> > > > > I'd be happy to help plan and deliver these. I can only do
>>>> >>> > > > > them in
>>>> >>> > > > > English, so some German speakers might be good too (hi
>>>> >>> > > > > Lasse!)
>>>> >>> > > > are you two (Dave, Lasse) still interested?
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > > It would be great to have descriptions for the workshops up
>>>> >>> > > > before
>>>> >>> > > > registration starts. So if you are still up for it, then I
>>>> >>> > > > would
>>>> >>> > > > appreciate it if one of you could step up to coordinate the
>>>> >>> > > > effort and
>>>> >>> > > > decide more precisely what we can offer at GUADEC :)
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > > To be more specific, the information I am looking for is:
>>>> >>> > > >  * Title of the workshop
>>>> >>> > > >  * Short Description (for an overview page)
>>>> >>> > > >  * Long Description (for detailed page)
>>>> >>> > > >  * Expected prior knowledge
>>>> >>> > > >  * Pre-Requisites for attendees (e.g. VM with certain packages)
>>>> >>> > > >  * Minimum/Maximum number of Attendees
>>>> >>> > > >  * Name of everyone giving the workshop
>>>> >>> > > >  * Should your employer be listed as a sponsor?
>>>> >>> > > >  * Will you need travel sponsorships?
>>>> >>> > > >  * Optional: bio (+ image) for website
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>> > > > Benjamin
>>>> >>> > > >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> guadec-list mailing list
>>>> >> [email protected]
>>>> >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
>>>> >>
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