Re: Convergence problem
Ramiro Aceves <[email protected]> Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:46:24 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.gnu.gnucap.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Oh, I am sorry Andy, it was a mistake, I meant "Al" El 20/07/11 14:54, Andy Fierman escribió: > Hi Ramiro, > > Um, it was Al who replied, not me. > > It might be a good idea to take me off the email address list if you > are posting to the Gnucap help list as I am now subscribed to it > anyway. > > Cheers, > > Andy. > > signality.co.uk > > > > > On 20 July 2011 13:28, Ramiro Aceves<[email protected]> wrote: >> Many thanks dear Andy for detailed response. >> >> I have made it work following your guidelines. I have done the following, >> not sure if it is the right way to compile only the modules required, not >> the full set of modules: >> >> cd gnucap-2009-12-07/models-spice3f5/bjt >> make >> >> then I copied the bjt.so file to the directory in which I have the circuit >> file >> >> I loaded the library: >> >> >> gnucap> load ./bjt.so >> Q: already installed, replacing >> stashing as Q:0 >> npn: already installed, replacing >> stashing as npn:0 >> pnp: already installed, replacing >> stashing as pnp:0 >> npn1: already installed, replacing >> stashing as npn1:0 >> pnp1: already installed, replacing >> stashing as pnp1:0 >> >> gnucap> get LVDS-TTL-interface.cir >> LVDS TTL interface by PY2WM >> gnucap> >> >> gnucap> print tran v(2) v(4) >> gnucap> tran 0.1n 50n >> #Time v(2) v(4) >> 0. 0.85 4.2814 >> 100.p 1.55 4.1288 >> 200.p 1.55 0.96156 >> 300.p 1.55 0.31304 >> 400.p 1.55 0.23195 >> 500.p 1.55 0.24185 >> 600.p 1.55 0.23245 >> 700.p 1.55 0.20509 >> 800.p 1.55 0.18063 >> 900.p 1.55 0.17625 >> 1.n 1.55 0.19033 >> 1.1n 1.55 0.20642 >> 1.2n 1.55 0.20952 >> 1.3n 1.55 0.19855 >> 1.4n 1.55 0.18501 >> 1.5n 1.55 0.18119 >> 1.6n 1.55 0.18946 >> 1.7n 1.55 0.20162 >> 1.8n 1.55 0.20731 >> 1.9n 1.55 0.2029 >> 2.n 1.55 0.191 >> 2.1n 1.55 0.19825 >> 2.2n 1.55 0.19598 >> 2.3n 1.55 0.19343 >> 2.4n 1.55 0.20056 >> 2.5n 1.55 0.18954 >> 2.6n 1.55 0.20379 >> 2.7n 1.55 0.18734 >> 2.8n 1.55 0.2051 >> 2.9n 1.55 0.18714 >> 3.n 1.55 0.20446 >> 3.1n 1.55 0.18875 >> 3.2n 1.55 0.20227 >> 3.3n 1.55 0.19158 >> 3.4n 1.55 0.19924 >> 3.5n 1.55 0.19485 >> 3.6n 1.55 0.19621 >> 3.7n 1.55 0.19774 >> 3.8n 1.55 0.19388 >> 3.9n 1.55 0.19966 >> 4.n 1.55 0.19272 >> 4.1n 1.55 0.20032 >> 4.2n 1.55 0.19284 >> 4.3n 1.55 0.19977 >> 4.4n 1.55 0.19402 >> 4.5n 1.55 0.19838 >> 4.6n 1.55 0.19579 >> 4.7n 1.55 0.19667 >> 4.8n 1.55 0.1976 >> 4.9n 1.55 0.1952 >> 5.n 1.55 0.19893 >> 5.1n 1.55 0.1944 >> 5.2n 0.85 -0.13994 >> 5.3n 0.85 -0.021841 >> 5.4n 0.85 0.038978 >> 5.5n 0.85 0.079093 >> 5.6n 0.85 0.094834 >> 5.7n 0.85 0.11366 >> 5.8n 0.85 0.12116 >> 5.9n 0.85 0.1194 >> 6.n 0.85 0.12327 >> 6.1n 0.85 0.12556 >> 6.2n 0.85 0.12698 >> 6.3n 0.85 0.12816 >> 6.4n 0.85 0.12906 >> 6.5n 0.85 0.12507 >> 6.6n 0.85 0.12974 >> 6.7n 0.85 0.12586 >> 6.8n 0.85 0.13014 >> 6.9n 0.85 0.12699 >> 7.n 0.85 0.13038 >> 7.1n 0.85 0.1286 >> 7.2n 0.85 0.13061 >> 7.3n 0.85 0.13081 >> 7.4n 0.85 0.13116 >> 7.5n 0.85 0.13387 >> 7.6n 0.85 0.13293 >> 7.7n 0.85 0.14006 >> 7.8n 0.85 0.14247 >> 7.9n 0.85 0.34613 >> 8.n 0.85 0.88974 >> 8.1n 0.85 1.6287 >> 8.2n 0.85 2.0306 >> 8.3n 0.85 2.3938 >> 8.4n 0.85 2.7543 >> 8.5n 0.85 3.0696 >> 8.6n 0.85 3.3279 >> 8.7n 0.85 3.5341 >> 8.8n 0.85 3.6993 >> 8.9n 0.85 3.8339 >> 9.n 0.85 3.9451 >> 9.1n 0.85 4.0361 >> 9.2n 0.85 4.1078 >> 9.3n 0.85 4.1611 >> 9.4n 0.85 4.199 >> 9.5n 0.85 4.2264 >> 9.6n 0.85 4.2485 >> 9.7n 0.85 4.2689 >> 9.8n 0.85 4.2885 >> 9.9n 0.85 4.3057 >> 10.n 0.85 4.3186 >> 10.1n 1.55 4.1344 >> 10.2n 1.55 0.99845 >> 10.3n 1.55 0.31618 >> 10.4n 1.55 0.24518 >> 10.5n 1.55 0.18808 >> 10.6n 1.55 0.16927 >> 10.7n 1.55 0.18742 >> 10.8n 1.55 0.21575 >> 10.9n 1.55 0.22626 >> 11.n 1.55 0.21206 >> 11.1n 1.55 0.18886 >> 11.2n 1.55 0.17744 >> 11.3n 1.55 0.18512 >> 11.4n 1.55 0.2071 >> 11.5n 1.55 0.19352 >> 11.6n 1.55 0.19835 >> 11.7n 1.55 0.20205 >> 11.8n 1.55 0.1907 >> 11.9n 1.55 0.20852 >> 12.n 1.55 0.18594 >> 12.1n 1.55 0.21151 >> 12.2n 1.55 0.18502 >> 12.3n 1.55 0.21057 >> 12.4n 1.55 0.18786 >> 12.5n 1.55 0.20628 >> 12.6n 1.55 0.19345 >> 12.7n 1.55 0.2 >> 12.8n 1.55 0.2002 >> 12.9n 1.55 0.19346 >> 13.n 1.55 0.20634 >> 13.1n 1.55 0.18832 >> 13.2n 1.55 0.2104 >> 13.3n 1.55 0.1858 >> 13.4n 1.55 0.21152 >> 13.5n 1.55 0.18635 >> 13.6n 1.55 0.20963 >> 13.7n 1.55 0.18967 >> 13.8n 1.55 0.20539 >> 13.9n 1.55 0.19481 >> 14.n 1.55 0.19997 >> 14.1n 1.55 0.20044 >> 14.2n 1.55 0.19475 >> 14.3n 1.55 0.20524 >> 14.4n 1.55 0.19094 >> 14.5n 1.55 0.20816 >> 14.6n 1.55 0.18933 >> 14.7n 1.55 0.2087 >> 14.8n 1.55 0.19014 >> 14.9n 1.55 0.20694 >> 15.n 1.55 0.193 >> 15.1n 1.55 0.20351 >> 15.2n 0.85 -0.14231 >> 15.3n 0.85 -0.022093 >> 15.4n 0.85 0.035938 >> 15.5n 0.85 0.083438 >> 15.6n 0.85 0.10343 >> 15.7n 0.85 0.11467 >> 15.8n 0.85 0.1245 >> 15.9n 0.85 0.12788 >> 16.n 0.85 0.12667 >> 16.1n 0.85 0.12449 >> 16.2n 0.85 0.12434 >> 16.3n 0.85 0.12677 >> 16.4n 0.85 0.13068 >> 16.5n 0.85 0.12906 >> 16.6n 0.85 0.12988 >> 16.7n 0.85 0.13116 >> 16.8n 0.85 0.12927 >> 16.9n 0.85 0.133 >> 17.n 0.85 0.12922 >> 17.1n 0.85 0.13456 >> 17.2n 0.85 0.12997 >> 17.3n 0.85 0.13602 >> 17.4n 0.85 0.1317 >> 17.5n 0.85 0.13792 >> 17.6n 0.85 0.13561 >> 17.7n 0.85 0.14322 >> 17.8n 0.85 0.15278 >> 17.9n 0.85 0.43123 >> 18.n 0.85 1.1791 >> 18.1n 0.85 1.821 >> 18.2n 0.85 2.2169 >> 18.3n 0.85 2.6105 >> 18.4n 0.85 2.9523 >> 18.5n 0.85 3.2628 >> 18.6n 0.85 3.489 >> 18.7n 0.85 3.6946 >> 18.8n 0.85 3.8374 >> 18.9n 0.85 3.9698 >> 19.n 0.85 4.0586 >> 19.1n 0.85 4.1402 >> 19.2n 0.85 4.1966 >> 19.3n 0.85 4.2437 >> 19.4n 0.85 4.282 >> 19.5n 0.85 4.3058 >> 19.6n 0.85 4.3345 >> 19.7n 0.85 4.343 >> 19.8n 0.85 4.3664 >> 19.9n 0.85 4.3656 >> 20.n 0.85 4.3853 >> 20.1n 1.55 4.2156 >> 20.2n 1.55 1.0442 >> 20.3n 1.55 0.32282 >> 20.4n 1.55 0.25686 >> 20.5n 1.55 0.20011 >> 20.6n 1.55 0.22197 >> 20.7n 1.55 0.23369 >> 20.8n 1.55 0.2219 >> 20.9n 1.55 0.19755 >> 21.n 1.55 0.18143 >> 21.1n 1.55 0.18444 >> 21.2n 1.55 0.19987 >> 21.3n 1.55 0.212 >> 21.4n 1.55 0.21091 >> 21.5n 1.55 0.19237 >> 21.6n 1.55 0.20586 >> 21.7n 1.55 0.19825 >> 21.8n 1.55 0.19968 >> 21.9n 1.55 0.20444 >> 22.n 1.55 0.19404 >> 22.1n 1.55 0.20935 >> 22.2n 1.55 0.19033 >> 22.3n 1.55 0.21183 >> 22.4n 1.55 0.1894 >> 22.5n 1.55 0.21141 >> 22.6n 1.55 0.1913 >> 22.7n 1.55 0.20839 >> 22.8n 1.55 0.19541 >> 22.9n 1.55 0.2037 >> 23.n 1.55 0.20059 >> 23.1n 1.55 0.1986 >> 23.2n 1.55 0.20552 >> 23.3n 1.55 0.19436 >> 23.4n 1.55 0.20905 >> 23.5n 1.55 0.19198 >> 23.6n 1.55 0.21043 >> 23.7n 1.55 0.19191 >> 23.8n 1.55 0.20947 >> 23.9n 1.55 0.19405 >> 24.n 1.55 0.20657 >> 24.1n 1.55 0.19778 >> 24.2n 1.55 0.20254 >> 24.3n 1.55 0.20214 >> 24.4n 1.55 0.1984 >> 24.5n 1.55 0.20612 >> 24.6n 1.55 0.1951 >> 24.7n 1.55 0.20887 >> 24.8n 1.55 0.19333 >> 24.9n 1.55 0.2099 >> 25.n 1.55 0.19337 >> 25.1n 1.55 0.20914 >> 25.2n 0.85 -0.14433 >> 25.3n 0.85 -0.018908 >> 25.4n 0.85 0.046426 >> 25.5n 0.85 0.082641 >> 25.6n 0.85 0.10003 >> 25.7n 0.85 0.11086 >> 25.8n 0.85 0.1229 >> 25.9n 0.85 0.13022 >> 26.n 0.85 0.12829 >> 26.1n 0.85 0.13103 >> 26.2n 0.85 0.13216 >> 26.3n 0.85 0.13252 >> 26.4n 0.85 0.1328 >> 26.5n 0.85 0.13098 >> 26.6n 0.85 0.13345 >> 26.7n 0.85 0.13174 >> 26.8n 0.85 0.13405 >> 26.9n 0.85 0.13265 >> 27.n 0.85 0.1347 >> 27.1n 0.85 0.13392 >> 27.2n 0.85 0.13549 >> 27.3n 0.85 0.13583 >> 27.4n 0.85 0.13666 >> 27.5n 0.85 0.13893 >> 27.6n 0.85 0.13984 >> 27.7n 0.85 0.14722 >> 27.8n 0.85 0.16968 >> 27.9n 0.85 0.51178 >> 28.n 0.85 1.29 >> 28.1n 0.85 1.754 >> 28.2n 0.85 2.1537 >> 28.3n 0.85 2.578 >> 28.4n 0.85 2.9599 >> 28.5n 0.85 3.2755 >> 28.6n 0.85 3.5259 >> 28.7n 0.85 3.7163 >> 28.8n 0.85 3.8878 >> 28.9n 0.85 4.0087 >> 29.n 0.85 4.1122 >> 29.1n 0.85 4.1907 >> 29.2n 0.85 4.2484 >> 29.3n 0.85 4.3023 >> 29.4n 0.85 4.3302 >> 29.5n 0.85 4.3699 >> 29.6n 0.85 4.3794 >> 29.7n 0.85 4.4101 >> 29.8n 0.85 4.4094 >> 29.9n 0.85 4.4333 >> 30.n 0.85 4.4283 >> 30.1n 1.55 4.274 >> 30.2n 1.55 1.0952 >> 30.3n 1.55 0.33674 >> 30.4n 1.55 0.26684 >> 30.5n 1.55 0.20314 >> 30.6n 1.55 0.17895 >> 30.7n 1.55 0.18767 >> 30.8n 1.55 0.21362 >> 30.9n 1.55 0.19124 >> 31.n 1.55 0.18523 >> 31.1n 1.55 0.19653 >> 31.2n 1.55 0.21176 >> 31.3n 1.55 0.21688 >> 31.4n 1.55 0.20912 >> 31.5n 1.55 0.19964 >> 31.6n 1.55 0.20292 >> 31.7n 1.55 0.20579 >> 31.8n 1.55 0.19734 >> 31.9n 1.55 0.21062 >> 32.n 1.55 0.19372 >> 32.1n 1.55 0.213 >> 32.2n 1.55 0.19286 >> 32.3n 1.55 0.21251 >> 32.4n 1.55 0.19479 >> 32.5n 1.55 0.2095 >> 32.6n 1.55 0.19885 >> 32.7n 1.55 0.20489 >> 32.8n 1.55 0.20391 >> 32.9n 1.55 0.19992 >> 33.n 1.55 0.20868 >> 33.1n 1.55 0.19586 >> 33.2n 1.55 0.21202 >> 33.3n 1.55 0.19365 >> 33.4n 1.55 0.21324 >> 33.5n 1.55 0.19371 >> 33.6n 1.55 0.21219 >> 33.7n 1.55 0.19591 >> 33.8n 1.55 0.20927 >> 33.9n 1.55 0.19962 >> 34.n 1.55 0.20529 >> 34.1n 1.55 0.20389 >> 34.2n 1.55 0.20125 >> 34.3n 1.55 0.20774 >> 34.4n 1.55 0.19809 >> 34.5n 1.55 0.21034 >> 34.6n 1.55 0.19646 >> 34.7n 1.55 0.21123 >> 34.8n 1.55 0.1966 >> 34.9n 1.55 0.21041 >> 35.n 1.55 0.19833 >> 35.1n 1.55 0.20823 >> 35.2n 0.85 -0.13829 >> 35.3n 0.85 -0.025077 >> 35.4n 0.85 0.048248 >> 35.5n 0.85 0.086672 >> 35.6n 0.85 0.10457 >> 35.7n 0.85 0.11291 >> 35.8n 0.85 0.12259 >> 35.9n 0.85 0.13055 >> 36.n 0.85 0.13497 >> 36.1n 0.85 0.1357 >> 36.2n 0.85 0.13422 >> 36.3n 0.85 0.1327 >> 36.4n 0.85 0.1324 >> 36.5n 0.85 0.13316 >> 36.6n 0.85 0.13406 >> 36.7n 0.85 0.13454 >> 36.8n 0.85 0.13611 >> 36.9n 0.85 0.13525 >> 37.n 0.85 0.13708 >> 37.1n 0.85 0.13624 >> 37.2n 0.85 0.13831 >> 37.3n 0.85 0.13785 >> 37.4n 0.85 0.14003 >> 37.5n 0.85 0.14074 >> 37.6n 0.85 0.14438 >> 37.7n 0.85 0.15019 >> 37.8n 0.85 0.29837 >> 37.9n 0.85 0.74561 >> 38.n 0.85 1.522 >> 38.1n 0.85 1.9135 >> 38.2n 0.85 2.2985 >> 38.3n 0.85 2.7232 >> 38.4n 0.85 3.0782 >> 38.5n 0.85 3.3999 >> 38.6n 0.85 3.6318 >> 38.7n 0.85 3.8218 >> 38.8n 0.85 3.9768 >> 38.9n 0.85 4.1023 >> 39.n 0.85 4.1973 >> 39.1n 0.85 4.2628 >> 39.2n 0.85 4.3144 >> 39.3n 0.85 4.3631 >> 39.4n 0.85 4.4019 >> 39.5n 0.85 4.4252 >> 39.6n 0.85 4.4419 >> 39.7n 0.85 4.4558 >> 39.8n 0.85 4.468 >> 39.9n 0.85 4.4788 >> 40.n 0.85 4.4875 >> 40.1n 1.55 4.3273 >> 40.2n 1.55 1.1408 >> 40.3n 1.55 0.34243 >> 40.4n 1.55 0.27132 >> 40.5n 1.55 0.20765 >> 40.6n 1.55 0.2362 >> 40.7n 1.55 0.24506 >> 40.8n 1.55 0.22431 >> 40.9n 1.55 0.19815 >> 41.n 1.55 0.20647 >> 41.1n 1.55 0.21256 >> 41.2n 1.55 0.19135 >> 41.3n 1.55 0.22497 >> 41.4n 1.55 0.18112 >> 41.5n 1.55 0.23197 >> 41.6n 1.55 0.17747 >> 41.7n 1.55 0.23218 >> 41.8n 1.55 0.18063 >> 41.9n 1.55 0.22613 >> 42.n 1.55 0.18922 >> 42.1n 1.55 0.21582 >> 42.2n 1.55 0.2007 >> 42.3n 1.55 0.2041 >> 42.4n 1.55 0.21208 >> 42.5n 1.55 0.19394 >> 42.6n 1.55 0.22064 >> 42.7n 1.55 0.18763 >> 42.8n 1.55 0.2246 >> 42.9n 1.55 0.18635 >> 43.n 1.55 0.22344 >> 43.1n 1.55 0.18997 >> 43.2n 1.55 0.21793 >> 43.3n 1.55 0.19717 >> 43.4n 1.55 0.2098 >> 43.5n 1.55 0.20591 >> 43.6n 1.55 0.20128 >> 43.7n 1.55 0.21394 >> 43.8n 1.55 0.19447 >> 43.9n 1.55 0.21941 >> 44.n 1.55 0.19088 >> 44.1n 1.55 0.22124 >> 44.2n 1.55 0.19111 >> 44.3n 1.55 0.21934 >> 44.4n 1.55 0.19476 >> 44.5n 1.55 0.21452 >> 44.6n 1.55 0.20067 >> 44.7n 1.55 0.20824 >> 44.8n 1.55 0.20721 >> 44.9n 1.55 0.20215 >> 45.n 1.55 0.21277 >> 45.1n 1.55 0.19775 >> 45.2n 0.85 -0.12329 >> 45.3n 0.85 -0.020915 >> 45.4n 0.85 0.046305 >> 45.5n 0.85 0.090732 >> 45.6n 0.85 0.11417 >> 45.7n 0.85 0.12002 >> 45.8n 0.85 0.1219 >> 45.9n 0.85 0.12946 >> 46.n 0.85 0.13108 >> 46.1n 0.85 0.1333 >> 46.2n 0.85 0.13499 >> 46.3n 0.85 0.13548 >> 46.4n 0.85 0.13704 >> 46.5n 0.85 0.13603 >> 46.6n 0.85 0.13807 >> 46.7n 0.85 0.13649 >> 46.8n 0.85 0.13898 >> 46.9n 0.85 0.13724 >> 47.n 0.85 0.13982 >> 47.1n 0.85 0.13855 >> 47.2n 0.85 0.14071 >> 47.3n 0.85 0.14078 >> 47.4n 0.85 0.14198 >> 47.5n 0.85 0.14472 >> 47.6n 0.85 0.1462 >> 47.7n 0.85 0.16037 >> 47.8n 0.85 0.34105 >> 47.9n 0.85 1.0725 >> 48.n 0.85 1.7907 >> 48.1n 0.85 2.2304 >> 48.2n 0.85 2.6501 >> 48.3n 0.85 3.0353 >> 48.4n 0.85 3.3584 >> 48.5n 0.85 3.6216 >> 48.6n 0.85 3.8371 >> 48.7n 0.85 3.9944 >> 48.8n 0.85 4.1245 >> 48.9n 0.85 4.2239 >> 49.n 0.85 4.2972 >> 49.1n 0.85 4.3626 >> 49.2n 0.85 4.3995 >> 49.3n 0.85 4.4453 >> 49.4n 0.85 4.4601 >> 49.5n 0.85 4.4938 >> 49.6n 0.85 4.4964 >> 49.7n 0.85 4.5213 >> 49.8n 0.85 4.5189 >> 49.9n 0.85 4.5361 >> 50.n 0.85 4.5337 >> gnucap> >> >> Thanks >> >> Ramiro. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> El 20/07/11 04:25, al davis escribió: >>> >>> On Tuesday 19 July 2011, Ramiro Aceves wrote: >>>> >>>> I have a convergence problem: >>> >>> Quick answer, based on experience, so I can give you an >>> immediate response .. >>> >>> Convergence problems are often tied to the model used. >>> >>> You are using the old "modelgen" BJT model, which will be phased >>> out. >>> >>> Try instead to use the Spice BJT model from the spice models >>> tarball. >>> >>> The modelgen models in gnucap (analogous to the spice "code- >>> models") check convergence by recursively checking the >>> subcircuit. This often results in overly critical checking, >>> where really everything is ok, but it indicates non-convergence. >>> >>> Convergence checking in the spice models is less critical, so >>> often just switching to the other model will solve the problem. >>> >>> Try this .. >>> get the plugin tarball >>> http://gnucap.org/devel/gnucap-2009-12-07-models-spice3f5.tar.gz >>> >>> unpack it, compile the "bjt" model .. "load" it as a plugin. >>> >>> >>> More detailed response, for the curious .. >>> >>> The modelgen models use an underlying subcircuit, and check >>> every part of it individually for convergence, the equivalent of >>> checking every state variable and the derivatives separately, >>> then a check pass checks all of the voltages node-to-node. To >>> accept, all must pass. This includes the internal nonlinear >>> capacitances, and all strays. The down side is that >>> occasionally one of the strays can get stuck on amplified >>> numerical noise and never be accepted, when in fact it could be >>> ignored. >>> >>> Spice uses a quick check for convergence, where only a few >>> parameters are checked, as a composite. This method often >>> accepts incorrect values as converged, sometimes leading to >>> believable incorrect results. >>> >>> Gnucap with the spice model is somewhere in the middle .. It >>> first uses the spice method, it's part of the model code, then >>> checks node-to-node voltages. The node-to-node check seems to >>> catch the false convergence problems. >>> >>> Convergence handling is a big issue in simulator and model >>> design. There are trade-offs, impossible to really know what is >>> best in general. >>> >> >> >